Anyone wanting to find out more about TABS ( Traffic Advisory Broadcast System ) see the FAA TSO C199 or this link has some info.
http://aviationweek.com/blog/avionics-here-s-little-lpse-your-airventure Someone has another acronym for it LPSE but its real name is TABS. TABS units will come down below $1,500 and possibly sub $1,000 if Google goes into production of its mass rollout of drones equipped with TABS devices. Cheers Nigel Nigel Andrews Andrews Electronic Design Pty Ltd 9 Condamine Court Killarney,Queensland,4373 Po Box 1195 Warwick Qld 4370 M: +61 419 989288 E: [email protected] Andrews Electronic Design Pty Ltd ABN - 921-33392140 Electronics engineering for the future **************DISCLAIMER************ The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 12:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." Today's Topics: 1. flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) 2. Re: flarmin' hell (Grietje Wansink) 3. Re: flarmin' hell (Mike Borgelt) 4. Re: flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:04:03 +1000 From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Message-ID: <caph3ineq_4-2zbo0zwqmrd-cxyz04jd9cudysza1pf1ods9...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-fl arm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol Please correct me if I am wrong: Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a powerFlarm. ..I would sign if I were you. Erich My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of direction. TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 521/01668b35/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:12:35 +1000 From: Grietje Wansink <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" As far as I have understood and experienced: Powerflarm dedicated to Australia will work in Australia (we have two gliders to confirm) but when dedicated to Europe will NOT work in Australia (we can confirm that also :-( ). LX integrated flarm will automatically change to Australian frequency when they find themselves in Australia. We also have experienced this. Encryption will not change this as it is automatically. Also I thought GFA is looking into this matter as it will have consequences for the WGC Junior competition in Narromine and the WGC in Benalla. Grietje On 21/05/2015 10:04 am, Erich Wittstock wrote: > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-agai > nst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > > Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people > own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not > cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > powerFlarm. > ..I would sign if I were you. > Erich > > My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication > of direction. > TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 521/eb6c53ac/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:23:01 +1000 From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Erich, ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. OK what is TABS? Mike At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: ><https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-agai >nst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol>https://www.ch >ange.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decis >ion-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >Please correct me if I am wrong: >Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people own >gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not cheap >instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a >powerFlarm. >..I would sign if I were you. >Erich > >My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit like >a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of >direction. >TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >? >_______________________________________________ >Aus-soaring mailing list >[email protected] >To check or change subscription details, visit: >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 521/c05f252a/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:07:28 +1000 From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Message-ID: <caph3ing2vymp3vza0lrqzlmupxm+gjkjdmqfea9cu2s-ls0...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Mike (et al), yes, ADSB will give direction and altitude in a TCAS system. But if you are "just" a glider pilot and you purchase a powerflarm - it still is not the best solution. Just more expensive. If you have a PowerFlarm and hook transponder data into it: you do not get a direction warning indication, just "incoming". Only Flarm traffic is shown comprehensively, even with climb rate etc... The direction / altitude data from a transponder only appears after you throw a few thousand dollars more at your glider instrument panel and get additional boxes containing magic smoke. TABS: "Traffic Advisory Broadcast System". >From my understanding: it is backwards compatible: It is another (new) >box containing magic smoke and is able to mix Flarm and transponder smoke. It will cost less than buying a transponder and powerflarm. "TSO-C199" is the data-sheet for the new smoke. http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2015%20ADSBSITF14/SP08b_FAA%20TABS%20brief ing.pdf I am looking after my original OZFlarm and wait for TABS. However, encrypting the Flarm protocol would mean I would have to fork out $2500 for a powerflarm just because the Flarm makers are greedy and want all other manufacturers out of their business. My existing OZFlarm would be useless even as a paperweight since it is too light (that's why it is great for a glider). The good 'ol flarm can be configured via software (by the user) to operate at different frequencies - to work in different countries. Later Flarm firmware versions switch frequencies automatically and allow you to take a flarm from Europe to the US and Australia without any problems. Powerflarms have to be configured by the manufacturer to change frequencies - and the Flarmin Swiss Company will charge a few toblerones for that! Why? because they can! ...make sure you select the "US/Australia" powerflarm from the millenair website, if you really have to buy a powerflarm and can't wait for TABS. Third party manufacturers such as LX Nav / LX Navigation utilise the good 'ol flarm in their devices - that's why they switch automatically according where you are. However, I can foresee that being stopped by the "flarm data encryption". You will need two powerflarms: One for Europe and the other for US/Australia. A bit like no longer being able to take your phone overseas and just using it with a sim card from that country.. Lucky for us users: there are enough brainy people out there that are capable of designing something that is far superior to flarm. Erich On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mike Borgelt < [email protected]> wrote: > Erich, > > ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be > seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction > information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give > direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. > > OK what is TABS? > > Mike > > > At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: > > > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-agai > nst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > > Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people > own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not > cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a powerFlarm. > ..I would sign if I were you. > Erich > > My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of direction. > TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > ? > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > *Borgelt Instruments* - > *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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