On 13 Jun 2017, at 7:53 pm, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Firstly, we need to recognise the authority of the State is necessary for 
> security and freedom. 

As a concept, and as a question of degree, that claim is quite heavily 
contested.

You're not going to get away with hand waving your way past it without defining 
your terms and describing where you think the limits are.

I know I don't need to recognise the authority if the State to monitor my 
communications to assure anybody's security and freedom. Pretty sure I don't 
need my government to monitor yours either. It's reasonable to expect that any 
privileges granted to them to produce secure and free outcomes should be 
narrowly tailored.

Hard to do that at the moment because they haven't even bothered to explain 
what they intend to do with the powers they're demanding. 

Authoritarians rarely feel the need to justify themselves: Authority is 
something that should be felt, not something that should be questioned.

    - mark



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