> > Worth thinking about, as I have seen some people here accusing > > Cocoon of not following patterns cleanly enough. > > > > As a matter of fact, I think we scare the shit out of most people > > with the complexity of the framework already. Patterns within > > patterns... It is not whether there are patterns or not - it is > > the fact that you have patterns of patterns, and you must somehow > > grasp them all. > > Correct. > After a week of teaching Avalon, I showed 2 implementation classes. > They said "is it this? easy!". > > Users are better off seeing it's easy and that it works for them rather > that being told how it was concieved.
this has to do with presentation and not with stability. > > So I completely understand Carsten. We will lose users. I see > > before me someone saying "F*** it. (1) They are obviously not committed > > to API stability, (2) just about when we've finally learned to use > > the framework (given how complex it is that may be a while), the next > > change will come along, (3) the cost of maintenance and keeping up > > with that will kill us. Let's roll our own framework." > > (1) Berin can say anything ;-P but stability was never seen in Avalon (bad) avalon framework 4.0 was released 30 July 2001, after 3 beta versions in May and June. Before that, it was not stable. After that release, we have had a few maintainance releases, where the most important changes were to logging code. > (2) And Berin will say it's a new version, we don't need to be > compatible (ie deprecation) he won't. > You know what? > I would REALLY like to see AF 5 be a big fat bugfix release with regards > to A4. > > That is: > - real-life examples, with ready to use containers (Merlin, Phoenix, etc) avalon framework will never ever contain containers. > - better interfaces, like the Service ones, based on real life needs > (not only mental masturbations) new interfaces would break compatibility > - Examples, examples, examples, examples nothing to do with bugs > - Usecases, usecases, usecases, usecases > - Documentation with images, images, images, images documentation has nothing to do with stability, or bugs. Only with learning curve. > This is not a rant but a proposal. I'm inclined to disagree. > I want to see votes on this proposal, because we are playing with the > life of this project. -1 - Leo Simons -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
