"I don't have confidence that when and if I run into future problems I can find the resources or help to get around problems."
http://wso2.com/ http://covalent.net/ http://www.spikesource.com/ http://www.sourcelabs.com/ http://www.allesta.com/ -- dims On 10/28/05, Paul Grillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would like to add that, to a large extent, I feel Kurt's pain. We > used Axis 1.2 to deploy a single SOAP service that was required of us by > one of our major partners that dictated a .NET interface complete with > SOAP element signature, timestamp, and encryption. I will say that we > got this working very nicely. I am appreciative of the work. I will > say that my interactions with the WSS4J folks was extremely helpful, and > I thank them very much. So, that is a great success and I thank > everybody that contributed. > > Now as I look to go a little more mainstream within the rest of our > products at our company, I began taking a closer look at Axis, including > java data binding dependencies which are critical because of the various > products our company produces that will need to adhere to the bound XSD > Objects. I need to insure that I have some independence when choosing > this piece of the puzzle. > > I have looked at AXIS and AXIS2. I have had a few questions related to > this. My major frustration is as my inability to get answers to what I > thought were fairly simple questions. Perhaps they are either not > simple, or thought as stupid. I'm not talking just about zeroing in on > a bug and submitting it to JIRA, I'm talking about some input about even > "whether" something is doable, not just how. > > Now before anybody comes down on me, I am fully aware of where my > expectations should be vis a vis open source software, mailing lists, > etc. I do not feel that I am owed anything when using this software. I > have found, however, a little more help in other areas when using open > source. I have, in fact, solved a myriad of problems on my own within > Axis. I find myself in the bowels of the code trying to figure out what > it's doing etc, so to solve my own problems. I do, however, have to > factor in the time spent to research and solve these issues. > > I have posted several questions and generally do not even get a > response, or an I don't know, though I suppose the lack of a response is > an I don't know. So, it's gotten to the point where I don't bother. In > terms of Axis, I feel that I need to go in another direction simply > because of my inability to get a straight answer around data binding > support (for example) now or in the future in Axis or in Axis2. I have > asked what I believe is a simple question, whether a particular class > that seems like it should be thread safe is so (just another example). > Generally speaking if somebody asked me about most any class I've > designed and built as to whether it was designed that way, I could come > up with an answer. Yet, no answer. Yes, yes, if a class is not > advertised as Threadsafe, consider that it isn't. Lack of > documentation, however, doesn't confirm the default assumption. > > But my bigger concern is the unknown. I don't have confidence that when > and if I run into future problems I can find the resources or help to > get around problems. Perhaps my expectations are much too high. Of > other products that we use and have had very good success is Hibernate, > Castor, WSS4J (as mentioned above). I just don't get a comfortable > feeling when working with Axis ... > > Okay, I'm big enough for somebody to tell me to not let the door hit me > in the you know where as I leave. Again, I'm not angry, I'm not even > largely disappointed. I've just been forced to make a decision based on > what is... > > Perhaps in awhile I'll return to see what's up with Axis2. > > -paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:07 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: I give up > > Kurt, > > Looking at your postings, i don't see much from you in terms of > engaging the user or developer community to ask for help. > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b > > Your specific email to Tom > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112801670512125&w=2)...i > have no clue how to help. i did reply back to a prev mail on that > thread (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112692662128194&w=2) > > If you have a problem with Macromedia or eBay folks, We can't really > help. If you have a problem with latest releases of Axis, we can help > if you add JIRA bugs (and chase us!) on the axis-dev@ list. If you > need production/development support, there are avenues for that as > well. > > Am sorry you had a bad experience, thanks for the feedback. > > -- dims > > On 10/27/05, Kurt Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Folks, I hate to say it but I had to ditch axis. Way too difficult. > And we > > won't be using it in the future. > > > > > > > > Our application has approx 30 vendors we communicate with using SOAP. > > > > Approx 25 of them are implemented by simply creating strings and > firing them > > off, then parsing out the reply. > > > > Primitive but fairly easy to do. > > > > > > > > The other 5 used axis. At the moment we're using the ColdFusion > server. When > > we upgraded to java 5 and coldfusion mx7 our axis based connectors > broke. > > > > It took approximately 2 weeks to diagnose and 'solve' the problem. > Axis used > > commons-logging, and commons-logging broke. That required fairly > > > > major surgery to the coldfusion classpath. Pieces of commons-logging > we're > > coming in off of different classloaders. > > > > > > > > So technically speaking, commons-logging broke - not axis > but.....since axis > > brought the flaw to life, and has given us grief (probably the CF > > integration) in the past, it is axis that got the bad reputation due > to the > > fact that it was at the top of the food chain. The two weeks solving > this > > problem wasn't totally wasted because it exposed a fairly large flaw > in the > > overall architecture. > > > > > > > > After getting the existing connectors to work again, I had to turn my > > attention to the next connector in the pipeline - eBay via Soap.... > > > > Only one problem - eBay's sdk is written against java 1.4 and axis 1.1 > - > > while we upgraded to java 5 and axis 1.2 > > > > After another week of trying various 'workarounds' etc I was forced to > give > > up and will have to communicate with eBay using the "create strings" > > technique. > > > > > > > > Bottom line is that the overall cost of the 'SOAP' system and it's > co-horts > > in crime is un-managable given our quarterly release cycle. > > > > I'm disappointed that after all that effor to modernize - the goal > really > > wasn't accomplished. > > > > > > > > I fully understand the various issues involved, most of which aren't > really > > axis's fault but - any way I slice it this entire exercise felt > exactly like > > trying to use the J2EE 1.3/1.4 ejb specifications. Big, confusing, > hard to > > use etc.....And I predict will eventually be abandoned (or at least > buried > > beneath a convienence API). > > > > > > > > This is just one co's experience of course but I submit to you that as > you > > continue your development you might want to consider the overall > 'cost' that > > SOAP and it's tools are exacting on the community. This simply has to > get > > easier because as it stands both the other developers (who watched > over my > > shoulder so to speak) and myself have simply given up on an 'easy' > tool fix. > > Our experience is that SOAP is a diaster and costing virtually > everyone in > > corporate programming a lot of money and lost sleep.... > > > > > > > > Thanks for listening, and please remember that I'm taking the time to > write > > this not to complain (well, maybe a little) but to provide feedback > from the > > field. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Kurt Olsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/ > > > -- Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
