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Ruwan,

How about a pointer to a public discussion on why SMTP Transport changes were 
debated? :)

- -- dims

Ruwan Linton wrote:
| Glen,
|
| I agree with you. But my concern is the history. That is, when ever we
| (synapse) wanted some transport specific feature for synapse to be added to
| axis2 transports axis2 community was not accepting them due to many reasons
| most of them are valid for web services, but from the synapse point of view,
| we do not need to (and should not) bound to the web services. Isn't it?
|
| This behavior is affecting the evolution of synapse and that is why we went
| ahead and developed our own transports. (Best example is the SMTP transport)
|
| Thanks,
| Ruwan
|
| On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Glen Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| wrote:
|
|> Hi Ruwan:
|>
|> If a given transport really only has relevance in the Synapse environment,
|> then  of course that transport has no need to exist outside Synapse.  But if
|> a transport is generically useful, I'd prefer to see it somewhere in WS
|> space as opposed to specifically within Synapse.  And if some generic
|> transport needs tweaking in particular ways for Synapse, then those ways
|> should be exposed as configuration or plug-points on the transport, which
|> get exercised by Synapse (but also tested in the transport build).  Example
|> - the nhttp transport could just include a callback property which, if set,
|> passes the 202 to a listener and ignores it otherwise (perhaps that's
|> exactly the way it works).  In the SMTP case, we should discuss what
|> happens, but again I don't see any issue with making a clean and useful
|> general SMTP transport - why should there need to be two of them??
|>
|> Here's my use case.  Someone wants to use nhttp, or JMS, or SMTP, with
|> Axis2.  They're not a Synapse user and are not interested in downloading
|> Synapse.  I want to make sure that this user can easily locate, download,
|> and install the transport they want.  At the same time I want the Axis2 and
|> the Synapse communities both sharing their skills to make the best set of
|> transports available for Axis2 and of course Axis2+Synapse.
|>
|> I'm not wedded to the details, as long as we can make that happen.  It
|> seems to me right now that ws-commons/transports is a better way to do this
|> than having lots of extension transports in Synapse, but I'm willing to be
|> convinced otherwise.
|>
|> Thanks,
|> --Glen
|>
|> Ruwan Linton wrote:
|>
|>> I forgot to mention that, of cause one can use these transports with
|>> knowing the limitations and issues of those, when working directly with
|>> axis2
|>>
|>> Thanks,
|>> Ruwan
|>>
|>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Ruwan Linton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:
|>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
|>>
|>>    Hi Dims, Glen and all,
|>>
|>>    On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:48 PM, Davanum Srinivas
|>>    <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
|>>
| Glen,
|
| At this point, Can we please agree that it's better for the
| people who actually work on it have their way :)
|
|
|>>>    +1 for this idea ... and one more thing is that;
|
|>>>    Although the transports which resides under synapse code base are
|>>>    just axis2 transports, there are some special cases that synapse
|>>>    needs from its transports. For example;
|
| * nhttp transport requires 202 Accepted HTTP messages to be
|   injected inside to synapse so that it can complete mediation
|   of one-way messages as well as we need those messages to be
|   injected on the separateListener case, where as axis2 should
|   just neglect those HTTP messages.
| * Same with 500 Internal Server Error on nhttp
| * smtp transport requires to treat all the Cc headers and Cc the
|   message to all the specified addresses (we have discussed this
|   earlier on axis2 and this is wrong according to the WS-MEPs,
|   because there are many outs)
|
|>>>    There are a number of synapse specific logic inside synapse
|>>>    transports, because synapse is not purely bound to WS space, but it
|>>>    is a mediation framework (ESB) which should support most of the
|>>>    other scenarios going out of the WS space. There for these
|>>>    transports may not directly work with axis2 and it is not at all a
|>>>    good idea to move them out from synapse code base.
|
|>>>    Thanks,
|>>>    Ruwan
|
|
|
| thanks,
| dims
|
|
| Glen Daniels wrote:
| | Asankha C. Perera wrote:
| |> Dims
| |>> - there should not be stale copies
| |>> - people who work on them should work where they want to.
| |> +1 to both!
| |
| | Agreed - I'd just prefer people wanted to work on them under
| WS/Axis. :)
| |
| |> I'd like to maintain these under Synapse.. We wrote these
| transports
| |> primarily for use by Synapse, and now we have JMS,
| NIO-HTTP/S, Mail,
| |> VFS (File), FIX and AMQP already.. These belong to a separate
| Maven
| |> module thats published to the Apache snapshots and Maven
|>>> Central
| |> repos, and
| |
| | Hm.  So this is a bit of a separate conversation, but *each*
| of the
| | transports should be its own deployable artifact.  If I want
| the AMQP
| | transport for some work I'm doing, I don't want to bother
| downloading
| | all the others....  Wherever they end up we should fix that!!
| |
| |> this JAR does not depend on the Synapse codebase at all.
| Anyone who
| |> wishes to use these can do so without any problems
| whatsoever, and
| |> raise JIRA's for bugs/enhancements where the code is actually
| maintained.
| |
| | Yeah.  I just think this makes a lot more sense under WS.
| |
| |>> | | These transports (JMS, NIO, whatever) are going to be
| generally
| |>> useful to any Axis2 user, so why make them go look in
|>>> Synapse's
| |>> codebase for them?
| |> I agree,.. however these transports were written by the
|>>> Synapse
| |> community for primary use by them. So instead of asking them
|>>> to
| |> maintain the code they write somewhere else - for the
| convenience of
| |> the secondary users, why not clearly document the available
| options
| |> under Axis2 and where one could download these extension
| transports
| |> developed by the Synapse community?
| |
| | Sure, I'm not saying that wouldn't work - what's really
| important to me
| | is that Axis2 users get a clear picture of the available
| transports when
| | they download Axis2 and use our website.  This is both to avoid
| | duplication of effort and to enable users to use the richest
| set of
| | components available.  It seems to me that the most natural way
|>>> to
| | achieve this is to contribute new transports to ws-commons or
| Axis2.
| |
| | Also consider this - wouldn't it be cool to be able to run the
| Axis2
| | test suite (which is presumably much more comprehensive than
| Synapse's
| | testing of Axis2) over each of the transports that Synapse
| originally
| | built?  I would think that might demonstrate some issues that
| Synapse
| | itself might not find, thus enabling the transports to be
| improved.
| |
| | But if the community wants to keep developing these under
| Synapse, then
| | we definitely need some pointers in the Axis2 code and web
| pages, and
| | those pointers need to be maintained.
| |
| | Thanks,
| | --Glen
| |
| |
|
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|>>
|>>
|>>
|>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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|>>
|>>
|>>
|>>
|>>    --    Ruwan Linton
|>>    http://www.wso2.org - "Oxygenating the Web Services Platform"
|>>
|>>
|>>
|>> --
|>> Ruwan Linton
|>> http://www.wso2.org - "Oxygenating the Web Services Platform"
|>>
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