I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At this point, i'll say get lost!
thanks, dims On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready > to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things > have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a > smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work. > > Sanjiva. > > Davanum Srinivas wrote: >> >> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards. >> >> -- dims >> >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch?? >>> >>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're >>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be". >>> >>> Sanjiva. >>> >>> Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>>> >>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model >>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a >>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV. >>>> >>>> -- dims >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Samisa, >>>>> >>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now >>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others. >>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active >>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the >>>>> board and to our end users. >>>>> >>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new >>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and >>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as >>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we >>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with >>>>> a TLP like focus. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> dims >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eran, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and >>>>>>> then we can continue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that >>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo >>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working. >>>>>>> - Really bad web sites >>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues >>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically >>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands >>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other >>>>>>> projects in WS PMC. >>>>>>> >>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even >>>>>> after >>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will >>>>>> remain. >>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub >>>>>> projects, >>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a >>>>>> useless >>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub >>>>>> projects >>>>>> it >>>>>> has. >>>>>> >>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. >>>>>> However, >>>>>> I >>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Samisa... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation, >>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please >>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after >>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their >>>>>>> experiences. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the " >>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list >>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they >>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is >>>>>>> saying. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>> dims >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka >>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas >>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chinthaka, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. >>>>>>>>> How >>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change >>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Problems : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work >>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related >>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc., >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where >>>>>>>>> both >>>>>>>>> committers can have access). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> for different TLPs? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. >>>>>>>>> Those >>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the >>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try >>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>>> >>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com >>> >>> -- >>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ >>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ >>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ >>> >>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. > Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ > > Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
