Thanks very much. I also appreciated the links to the articles on your website.

cheers
Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Recommendations for a new project?
> 
> 
> No, Jibx2Wsdl works fine with 1.4.x code and JVMs. The 
> support for Java 
> 5 features is strictly optional, and just means that if you 
> *are* using 
> these features Jibx2Wsdl will make use of the added information.
> 
> -- 
> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> SOA and Web Services in Java
> Axis2 Training and Consulting
> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Thanks Dennis,
> >
> > That's very helpful. I looked up jibx2wsdl, and found that 
> it "has support for Java 5 enumerations and generic 
> collections". Does that mean that Java 5 is required? I have 
> to stick with Java 1.4.2 for now because working for the 
> Canadian government means working amongst glaciers and dinosaurs!
> >
> > cheers
> > md
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: Recommendations for a new project?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Michael,
> >>
> >> There are no magic bullets when it comes to doing WSDL. 
> >> Contract-first 
> >> is great in theory, and is pretty much the only way to do 
> things in 
> >> cases where you're dealing with different groups in 
> >> developing services 
> >> to be used organization wide. However, the tools that are 
> >> available to 
> >> support editing WSDLs and schemas are really very 
> primitive, and you 
> >> need to have a good understanding of what you're doing in 
> >> order to make 
> >> effective use of these tools. For WSDL this isn't too bad, 
> >> but schema is 
> >> very complex and has a steep learning curve. So if you want to do 
> >> contract-first development correctly, expect to spend a 
> >> couple of weeks 
> >> on researching and learning the basics of schema beforehand.
> >>
> >> Think of it this way - would you sign a contract that was 
> >> written in a 
> >> language you couldn't read, under the legal system of a 
> country you 
> >> weren't familiar with? If the answer is "no", then you should 
> >> expect to 
> >> have to learn WSDL and schema regardless of whether you're using 
> >> "contract-first" or "code-first" service development.
> >>
> >> There's a lot of confusion over just what is meant by 
> code-first vs. 
> >> contract-first development. I saw a recent posting on this 
> list that 
> >> pointed at the Spring (mis)information on this topic, which 
> >> assumed that 
> >> code-first meant the WSDL and schema was effectively 
> always generated 
> >> on-the-fly from the current code, so that any time the code 
> >> changed the 
> >> WSDL and schema would also change. That's effectively what 
> >> was done by 
> >> the deprecated rpc/enc style of SOAP, and I agree completely 
> >> that this 
> >> is unworkable for any serious enterprise use.
> >>
> >> I'd define code-first differently, to say that it means you 
> >> start with 
> >> template code and use that to generate a WSDL and schema 
> definition, 
> >> which can then be used directly or modified as appropriate. 
> >> But whether 
> >> used directly or modified, what you end up with is a WSDL 
> and schema 
> >> that are "fixed" definitions for the service (meaning that 
> >> they are part 
> >> of the service contract, and changing these becomes a service 
> >> versioning 
> >> issue). Based on what I've seen this is actually the approach 
> >> used for 
> >> the majority of real-world web service development. The 
> >> Jibx2Wsdl tool 
> >> (http://www.sosnoski.com/jibx-wiki/space/axis2-jibx/jibx2wsdl) is 
> >> designed around this principle, and if you're considering 
> >> using JiBX you 
> >> may want to look into using the tool since it handles JiBX binding 
> >> generation, as well as WSDL and schema generation, from 
> >> existing code. 
> >> The current version of the tool is an early release, and I 
> >> expect do an 
> >> update within the next week.
> >>
> >>   - Dennis
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> >> SOA and Web Services in Java
> >> Axis2 Training and Consulting
> >> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
> >> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>     
> >>> To me, Contact-First makes perfect sense. I haven't heard 
> >>>       
> >> the Axis experts say "No No No!" yet, so I figure I'll go 
> with that.
> >>     
> >>> thanks
> >>> md
> >>>
> >>>   
> >>>       
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Luis Mariano Luporini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:17 PM
> >>>> To: [email protected]
> >>>> Subject: Re: Recommendations for a new project?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael:
> >>>>
> >>>>        I'm having this kind of questions as you stated in 
> >>>>         
> >> your mails.
> >>     
> >>>> And think, probably, the better one would be to go with a
> >>>> 'Contract-First' approach to keep the environment 
> >>>>         
> >> controlled when one
> >>     
> >>>> needs to implement features/changes. This way your clients 
> >>>> will be happy
> >>>> to get a consistent WSDL across releases.
> >>>>
> >>>>        But anyway I would like to hear your points on this. 
> >>>> Please, let
> >>>> know if you come to some conclusions.
> >>>>
> >>>>        Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Luis
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>> Ok, thanks again
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>     *From:* robert lazarski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>     *Sent:* Monday, May 28, 2007 12:36 PM
> >>>>>     *To:* [email protected]
> >>>>>     *Subject:* Re: Recommendations for a new project?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     JIBX has its own site and docs - I'd follow those to 
> >>>>>           
> >> get on the
> >>     
> >>>>>     right track.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Robert
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     On 5/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*
> >>>>>     <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>         Thanks very much. I am using Hibernate and 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> fortunately I have
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>         complete control over the schema, so I'll check 
> out jibx.
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>         So assuming I'm creating my own wsdl and will use 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> jibx, would
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>         you generate code using wsdl2java or would you 
> start from
> >>>>>         scratch? I suspect that starting from scratch 
> >>>>>           
> >> will allow for
> >>     
> >>>>>         cleaner and simpler code in the long run, because as the
> >>>>>         number of operations grows then there will be more
> >>>>>         opportunities for refactoring code rather than 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> having lots of
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>         redundant generated code, am I right?
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>         cheers
> >>>>>         md
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>             *From:* robert lazarski 
> >>>>>           
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>     
> >>>>>             <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >>>>>             *Sent:* Monday, May 28, 2007 12:18 PM
> >>>>>             *To:* [email protected] 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             *Subject: *Re: Recommendations for a new project?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             From what you say I'd go with ADB 
> >>>>>           
> >> databinding, creating
> >>     
> >>>>>             and validating your WSDL via eclipse's WST. 
> If you are
> >>>>>             using hibernate / jdo and such, I'd consider 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> jibx. If you
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             have complex schemas out of your control - 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> which is often
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             the case for me - use xmlbeans. Either way, 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> starting with
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             the WSDL for a 'contract first' approach is 
> >>>>>           
> >> often a good
> >>     
> >>>>>             choice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             If you've never done single sign on before I 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> recommend CAS:
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             http://www.ja-sig.org/products/cas/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             See rampart for ws-security - available for 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> axis2 1.1.1 .
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             Search the archives for questions related to 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> soap headers
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             as the subject comes up frequently.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             HTH,
> >>>>>             Robert
> >>>>>
> >>>>>             On 5/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>             
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>> icecanada.gc.ca
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>             <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                 I forgot to mention, in case it's 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> important. I'm using
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 axis2 1.1.1, because due to circumstances 
> >>>>>           
> >> beyond my
> >>     
> >>>>>                 control, I'm forced to use jdk 1.4.2 
> and WebSphere
> >>>>>                 6.1, and I couldn't get axis2 1.2 to work 
> >>>>>           
> >> with that
> >>     
> >>>>>                 combination.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                 md
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                 > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>                 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>                 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>>                 > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>                 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >>>>>                 > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:44 AM
> >>>>>                 > To: [email protected]
> >>>>>                 <mailto:[email protected]>
> >>>>>                 > Subject: Recommendations for a new project?
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > Hi,
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > I apologize in advance for a slightly 
> >>>>>           
> >> rambling and
> >>     
> >>>>>                 unfocussed
> >>>>>                 > request for advice. The short questions 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> are: if you are a
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > really experienced Axis user, and are 
> starting a
> >>>>>                 brand new
> >>>>>                 > project, would you write everything 
> from scratch
> >>>>>                 using Axiom?
> >>>>>                 > Would you use one of the data binding 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> libraries such
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 as JiBX?
> >>>>>                 > Would you maintain your wsdl/xsd 
> files by hand?
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > Now for the long version:
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > I'm new to Axis and web services, but 
> have been
> >>>>>                 programming
> >>>>>                 > Java for several years.
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > I'm working on a simple web service that 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> provides a
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > single-sign-on for our organization's 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> applications.
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 The first
> >>>>>                 > operation I'm working on is very simple 
> >>>>>           
> >> - it just
> >>     
> >>>>>                 takes three
> >>>>>                 > strings (user name, password and 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> application name) and
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > returns a string containing a list of 
> >>>>>           
> >> permissions.
> >>     
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > It works fine, but I've implemented 
> it using the
> >>>>>                 easiest way
> >>>>>                 > possible. I just wrote a POJO class 
> >>>>>           
> >> with a method
> >>     
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > String authenticate( String, String, String )
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > and ran Java2Wsdl using the basic 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> defaults. I don't
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > explicitly use any of the Axis apis.
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > However, looking to the future, I can see 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> where I'll
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > eventually need to take more control, for 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> example I might
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > want to manipulate the SOAP headers and/or use
> >>>>>                 WS-Security,
> >>>>>                 > and I'll probably eventually want to pass 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> around more
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > complicated structures than strings.
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > So I'm trying to determine the best 
> >>>>>           
> >> strategy. I'm
> >>     
> >>>>>                 slightly
> >>>>>                 > bewildered with all of the choices:
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > 1. Should I write the clients and 
> services from
> >>>>>                 scratch using
> >>>>>                 > the axiom libraries, or generate the stubs and
> >>>>>                 skeletons?
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > 2. If I write them from scratch, and 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> already have my own
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > model classes (representing such things 
> >>>>>           
> >> as users),
> >>     
> >>>>>                 should I
> >>>>>                 > use one of the data binding libraries 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> such as XMLBeans or
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > JiBX? If so, which one?
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > 3. Should I be maintaining my wsdl file 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> (and included
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 schema
> >>>>>                 > files) by hand (or using an appropriate 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> editing tool) in
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > order to maitain control over the various 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> types, as
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 opposed
> >>>>>                 > to generating it using Java2Wsdl 
> every time the
> >>>>>                 interface changes?
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > I can see that the Axis developers have 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> tried hard to
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 provide
> >>>>>                 > a spectrum of methods and interfaces from the
> >>>>>                 easy/simple to
> >>>>>                 > the complex/powerful. But I'd be very 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >>>> interested to
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 know what
> >>>>>                 > methods a really experienced Axis user 
> >>>>>           
> >> would use.
> >>     
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > Many thanks,
> >>>>>                 > Michael Davis
> >>>>>                 >
> >>>>>                 > 
> >>>>>       
> >>>>>           
> >> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>     
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>>>>                 > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>                 
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> >>>>>           
> >> 
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> >> 
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> >>>>
> >>>>     
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> >
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