On 8-Aug-06, at 1:58 AM, Tom Schindl wrote:
I only wanted to put my 2ยข in here. First of all its great that
there's
something going on with AxKit. Having said that I hope you don't
mind if
I don't go along with your decision not using Apache-2.x/mod_perl-2.x
but shiping your own httpd.
Absolutely not. And I'll also say up front that my "AxKit2" code
isn't in ASF SVN partly because if it's not the way the community
wants it to go then we can scrap it. However before deciding to scrap
it I would urge you to take a look at what's there and see if it's
even vaguely interesting.
1. ties of Apache upgrade cycles
--------------------------------
First of all I think the only problem with porting AxKit-1 to
Apache2.x
are the parts written in C because for those you need Apache-Core
knowledge but because you decided to write the whole AxKit-2 in pure
perl I can't see any problem porting it e.g. to Apache-X.X in future.
Mod-Perl and Apache-Setup wasn't really the problem most of the time
XML::LibXML was the beast (e.g. on red-hat)
I think this point (that I made) isn't a very strong one - being tied
to mod_perl isn't a big deal if you only ever intend to work with
Apache. But I would honestly like to see AxKit able to work in a
lighttpd environment, or an IIS environment.
But also after spending 7 years working with mod_perl I think I've
decided I don't like it all that much :-)
2. easier to use and install in these days
------------------------------------------
As you already stated as an answer to a question you can't live
without
Apache at least as frontend-proxy in future.
Did I state that? I think I've stated in other places that this httpd
will be good enough for many places to deploy on. In fact in many
ways it's more scalable than Apache (uses epoll/kqueue for
asynchronous I/O).
Plus it doesn't have to be Apache. Many places are deploying apps on
lighttpd as it copes with the load better.
I for myself see the situation like the following:
- use proven thoroughly tested components (nothing against your
perl-httpd-server) but is there anything better out-there?
The core concepts of the httpd are well proven - they are in use in
Perlbal (used by livejournal as their front-end httpd) and in
Qpsmtpd. If you don't trust it to do things exactly right you can
front-end it with Apache or lighttpd just the same as you would if I
built it as a FastCGI backend.
- reuse of many different modules already available for mod-perl this
contradicts your reason no 1. because you need provide a layer in
AxKit2 emulating mod-perl behaviour and then you definately have to
adjust AxKit2 everytime mod-perl changes an interface even not one
AxKit2 uses but any module designed for mp2 people rely on
This is the biggest worry - we can't use all those fancy Auth modules
and things like that. I have no argument against this point at all.
One more thing I think is that there isn't any offical statement how
your decision to take this way for AxKit-2 is found anywhere.
- Has it been discussed any where?
- What do other developers think, do they go along with you?
At least in the mailing lists nothing about this can be found. The
thing
I always loved about opensource development was that the decision-
making
process is open to anyone and it's not a secret in an
Apache-Software-Project.
AxKit has been deserted by all the core developers. They still hang
around chatting on IRC but nobody has any time for doing any work. So
it was left to me to create some momentum. I decided to go this route
as it scratched my personal itch (partly to build a highly scalable
web server in Perl - which had nothing to do with AxKit to be fair).
I hope my cirtism did get too rough once more I appreciate your
efforts
but I wanted to let you know what I think.
Not at all - this is what open source is about.
And let me say that I have no problems whatsoever with TomKit - but I
wanted it to be much easier to build applications in AxKit2, and so I
wanted to investigate an entirely different paradigm. I find it's
easy enough to build static-ish web sites in AxKit1, but non-trivial
to build a full blown application. The gallery is a good example of
that - the code is MUCH simpler under AxKit2 IMHO.
The other thing that I think may be possible (maybe with a bit of
work) is porting the current AxKit2 code to run inside Apache2/
mod_perl, but I will probably leave that up to someone who has time
available to do that work.
(And please keep opinions coming - I want to hear as many points of
view as possible)
Matt.
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