John, I am not going to disagree w/you and history.
Dear António, > > I am afraid I must disagree with you. > > You are correct that today, the use of Dona, the use of which is almost > universal, is usually used in the formal address of a married or older > woman. > > However, until the end of the 19th/early 20th centuries, it was reserved > for propertied and socially promminant women, either in their own right, or > through their husbands. I have seen 19th century marriage records of many a > young 17 year old Dona... being married to a morgado, or someone whose > profession is described as "vivendo dos seus bens" (in other words, living > from his investments). At 17 one is neither old nor married. I have even > see a baptism of an infant Dona Maria Isabel, daughter of a Morgado and > his wife D. .... > > When doing genealogical research one can go through several generations of > ancestors who were illiterate peasants. And then all of a sudden in the > 18th century one discovers a male ancestor with a very long series of > family names and his wife, Dona Efigênia da Silva dos Reis e Mendonça, > and one knows that the rest of the research will be easy. If one is > researching in S. Miguel or Santa Maria, it is almost a certainty that D. > Efigênia's line will be documented in Carlos Machado or Rodrigo Rodrigues > all the way back to one of the first settlers of the islands or the Condes > de Feira, etc., etc. > > So, the use of Dona in the last 120 years is as you describe it, but > before then, my illiterate barefooted females ancestors, mostly named Maria > de Jesus, were not titled Dona by anybody. "Tia Maria de Jesus" was more > likely and Carlos Machado and Rodrigo Rodrigues were not interested in > their ancestry. > > Best regards, > > John Miranda Raposo > > On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 3:43 PM, Antonio Roque > <[email protected]<javascript:>> > wrote: > The word " Dona " is to show respect to an older woman, it has nothing > to do with stature you have or your husband has. I might walk into a house > any house and say " como vai a Dona da casa " or if I see someone I will > say "como vai a Dona Maria " it is a term used allot in S. Miguel > > On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:17:22 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: > > Hi Dano, > > I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, > alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them > whose wife was called "Dona." Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico > for my military ancestors. I do know they were "from old and noble > families" or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just > didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. > > Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my > ancestors and still their wives were not "dona." > > But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see "dona" > for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but "dona" was > certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with "dona" and she > was the wife of an administrator of a "vinculo" so I guess that finally was > enough to qualify. But her mother was not a "dona." It came from her > husband, yet his mother was not "dona" either! > > Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the > subject. > > By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, > since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records > well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. > > Doug da Rocha Holmes > Sacramento, California > Pico & Terceira Genealogist > 916-550-1618 > www.dholmes.com > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help > From: Dano <[email protected]> > > The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new > surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full > eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was "shoemaker." People > just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain "ever." > Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such > appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people > mentioned. > > > -- > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
