Francisco, I hope you are aware, the two largest cities on Sao Miguel,
Ponta Delgada and Ribeira Grande, actually have 'exposto' books. I have yet
to see reference to any of the terms you cited. Having said that, I guess
it is possible. But I am doubtful because after all these years of
researching, I would think the existence of these records would have
surfaced before now. Perhaps, if they exist, the records are not available
because the misericordias are private institutions, not subject to public
policies.
JR
On Sunday, February 24, 2019 at 11:33:42 AM UTC-5, Genealogia sem segredos
wrote:
>
> Dear Cheri;
> The records for "expostos", in the Azores, at least in S. Miguel, are not
> so easily accessible as in mainland Portugal. As far as I know, these
> records are still in the archives of the municipalities and of the
> "misericórdias". Some of these archives are not open to public. I guess it
> will take time to have these interesting documents to be fully available
> for the Azores. However, in what concerns the "ladies of the night" you can
> access some records (not online though) searching the database with the
> words "toleradas", "meretrizes" or "bailarinas" (the firs ones for 1880s to
> 1920s; the last one for later dates like 1940s and 1950s).
> Best;
> Francisco
> ("Genealogia sem segredos" researcher)
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com <javascript:>> escreveu no dia sexta,
> 22/02/2019 à(s) 01:07:
>
>> Francisco Q,
>>
>> Exactly where are these special expostos records located in the Azores?
>> What is the name of the record set to request? Many more expostos were
>> baptized at the various Matriz churches than regular smaller churches. Some
>> have separate books for them and some do not. And how does one find the
>> records for the "ladies of the night" and what is that record set called?
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 4:58 PM Genealogia sem segredos <
>> genealogia...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Leonor;
>>> Regarding your question "I would like to know if there are any records,
>>> that you know of, for the "expostos", who raised them? Is there a database
>>> I can look at?", the answer is Yes. However, the Azores records of the
>>> "expostos" are not online (yet) as it happens already, for instance, with
>>> the Porto district (where the local archive has thousands and thousands of
>>> records online).
>>> I should mention also that "ladies of the night" where deeply controled
>>> by local authorities and you have personal files of all these women since
>>> the early 1900s. From 1918 onwards you will have also photographs.
>>> Regarding S. Miguel island, I have consulted these records myself and I can
>>> tell you that this is very interesting stuff. Local authorities made
>>> curious and somewhat sad remarks on these personal files.
>>> Best;
>>> Francisco Queiroz
>>> ("Genealogia sem segredos" researcher)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Denis Meals <den...@gmail.com <javascript:>> escreveu no dia quinta,
>>> 14/02/2019 à(s) 18:29:
>>>
>>>> To add to this discussion, the *Dicionário de Português - Inglês,
>>>> published in Porto, Portugal Editoria*, that I have, has the following
>>>> definition:
>>>> "cédula, schedule; bill; note." [no cédulas listed]. This, to me, gives
>>>> the latitude that Leonor, Cheri, and Ângela are all correct.
>>>> Denis
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:58 PM Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Leonor,
>>>>>
>>>>> We know how imperfect the machine translators are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angela, thanks, I'll be on the lookout for that. Cheri
>>>>> Cheri Mello
>>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:56 PM Ângela Loura <angel...@gmail.com
>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to add: you'll notice in some records on the CCA baptism records
>>>>>> stating "foi-lhe passada a cédula n° 123"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Na(o) quinta, 14 de fev de 2019, 02:13, Cheri Mello <
>>>>>> gfsc...@gmail.com <javascript:>> escreveu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leonor,
>>>>>>> Fantastic! I learned something new today. I didn't know what a
>>>>>>> cédula was, so I looked it up and it said banknote. I am familiar with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bilhete de identidade.
>>>>>>> I guess if anyone has the old cédulas, it would in an old trunk
>>>>>>> somewhere. Cheri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 13, 2019 6:08 PM, "Leonor Bertoni" <leonor....@gmail.com
>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Cheri,
>>>>>>> Thank you very much, I will follow your advice and post a more
>>>>>>> concise question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a little confused as to your comment saying that cedulas are
>>>>>>> banknotes. A cedula is an identification book that has become obsolete.
>>>>>>> However, if they were kept up to date and if we could find them, they
>>>>>>> contain a wealth of information. The book has a black cover (mine has
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>> lost its cover). It is issued shortly after a child's birth, normally
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> the time of the child's registration. It shows the relevant events in
>>>>>>> terms
>>>>>>> of civil registration (birth registration, emancipations, adoptions,
>>>>>>> marriages, parents' and grandparents' names, immunizations, etc. ).
>>>>>>> During
>>>>>>> the war, cedulas were used to keep track of rationing data for each
>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>> The bilhete de identidade (Portuguese ID) has since replaced the
>>>>>>> cedula, I
>>>>>>> believe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Below is mine. The No. shown there is my registration number.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: Cedula.jpg]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:41, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Leonor,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, the story is a little jumbled. And just like you, most of us
>>>>>>>> began our research AFTER there was no one to ask.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cédulas is banknotes. That's not a typical source we use in
>>>>>>>> genealogy, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. When
>>>>>>>> evaluating
>>>>>>>> evidence, it's important to remember WHO said it, WHAT did they say,
>>>>>>>> WHEN
>>>>>>>> did they say it, and HOW did they know? My dad got used to my
>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>> about the family. I'd get him going with a story, and when he was
>>>>>>>> done,
>>>>>>>> he'd say, "And before you ask, it was my grandfather telling me the
>>>>>>>> story,
>>>>>>>> and I was, I don't know, 9 or 10 years old." That information in
>>>>>>>> itself is
>>>>>>>> very revealing. That particular grandfather was a storyteller and my
>>>>>>>> dad's
>>>>>>>> 9 or 10 year old memory was that of a child and childhood memories can
>>>>>>>> change over time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baptisms over in the Azores record the name. Babies baptized as
>>>>>>>> Maria went by their middle (often religious) middle name. So if your
>>>>>>>> ancestor was the daughter of pais incognitos, then she would be an
>>>>>>>> exposta,
>>>>>>>> baptized as Monica. I don't know what to tell you about HER children's
>>>>>>>> baptisms. I don't know where you are looking or what you are looking
>>>>>>>> at. If
>>>>>>>> you are 100% sure of Monica and Vitorino's marriage, post the URL.
>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>> post the URL of their children's baptisms. I would start a new post
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> this (as Hello & Introduction isn't getting you any responses).
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> something like "Medeiros from Sao Jose in Ponta Delgada on Sao Miguel
>>>>>>>> island" would get people's attention. The you can post the records you
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> finding from the CCA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since you tested with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA), you need to join the
>>>>>>>> Azores DNA project there. They have tools to help you and you may not
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> fully utilizing everything that is available to you there (especially
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Parental Matching). Log in, at the top point to MyProjects, from the
>>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>>> down pick Join A Project, then scroll down to Search By Surname and
>>>>>>>> type in
>>>>>>>> Azores. Scroll to the JOIN button at the end and click it.
>>>>>>>> Hope this is of some help, Cheri
>>>>>>>> Cheri Mello
>>>>>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>>>>>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>>>>>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:09 PM Leonor Bertoni <leonor....@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>> I am so sorry, I figured my story was a little jumbled. I was just
>>>>>>>>> so excited to finally find some like minded people. It's very
>>>>>>>>> difficult to
>>>>>>>>> get any straight answers from family mainly because they do not
>>>>>>>>> remember.
>>>>>>>>> Most of my family is gone so this becomes a real chore. I started
>>>>>>>>> with my
>>>>>>>>> family that is alive and went backwards. My mother's side is fairly
>>>>>>>>> simple,
>>>>>>>>> it's just a matter of finding records in Cultura Acores and cross
>>>>>>>>> referencing with whatever records we have that we know to be true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would really like to find out more about my great grandmother
>>>>>>>>> who my mother always referred to as Monica de Jesus. I recently found
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> that one of her daughter's "cedulas" her name is listed as Maria do
>>>>>>>>> Rosario
>>>>>>>>> Monica, it is not clear why this is, I will refer to her as Monica
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> forward. I can imagine that maybe she was baptized as Monica but
>>>>>>>>> registered by the other name. I found a baptism certificate for a
>>>>>>>>> Monica
>>>>>>>>> that was an exposta. I also found a marriage certificate for Monica
>>>>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>>> Jesus and Vitorino Medeiros (I know for sure they are my
>>>>>>>>> grandparents). In
>>>>>>>>> the marriage certificate Monica's parents are listed as icognitos.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> confusion is when it comes to their children's baptismal
>>>>>>>>> certificates.
>>>>>>>>> Sometimes Monica is referred to as Maria do Rosario Monica, sometimes
>>>>>>>>> Monica de Jesus. Some children she lists one couple as her parents,
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> children a different couple. I know that these records are correct, I
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> just wondering if maybe there was some way to see if she had been
>>>>>>>>> adopted
>>>>>>>>> or raised by someone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tested my DNA with AncestryDNA. Other than Ancestry, Cultura
>>>>>>>>> Acores, Family Tree, I don't know of any other place to look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 at 19:02, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Leonor B,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many Portuguese didn't have last names historically, especially
>>>>>>>>>> women.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's hard to follow your story as we all have 2 grandfathers and
>>>>>>>>>> 2 grandmothers. It's not always stated in your story which if
>>>>>>>>>> paternal and
>>>>>>>>>> which is maternal. You may just find it easier to use their names
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> dealing with a genealogy group or list. Typing out "My paternal
>>>>>>>>>> grandfather" gets to be tedious and it's hard for the reader to
>>>>>>>>>> follow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your brother says your paternal grandfather (pai incognito) is
>>>>>>>>>> Joao Afonso de Oliveira. This would be on your mainland (Aljezur or
>>>>>>>>>> Algrave) side. There's 2 ways to test this theory. You can find a
>>>>>>>>>> descendant of Joao Afonso de Oliviera and get them to DNA test and
>>>>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>>>>> you match. Or your brother could take a Y-DNA test (that's your
>>>>>>>>>> father's
>>>>>>>>>> father's father's or the top of the pedigree chart) and wait for a
>>>>>>>>>> match to
>>>>>>>>>> come along, from someone else who has built the paper trail beyond
>>>>>>>>>> your Joao Afonso de Oliveira. The only company that tests Y-DNA for
>>>>>>>>>> genealogy and provides matching is Family Tree DNA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You mention you have tested your DNA. With which company? If it's
>>>>>>>>>> not FTDNA, you need to transfer over (it's free and so are the
>>>>>>>>>> matches).
>>>>>>>>>> Fish in as many ponds as you can to find those cousins. Or you (and
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> brother) can test on FTDNA's platform. Yes, you and your brother
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> both DNA test as you have inherited different quarters of your
>>>>>>>>>> grandparents' DNA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Expostos or expostas don't have records in the Azores. Not too
>>>>>>>>>> sure what the continent has. When working the records in the Azores,
>>>>>>>>>> if a
>>>>>>>>>> parent (or both) come forward and claim the baby, it may be noted in
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> baby's baptism margin. Sometimes the church kept a separate book of
>>>>>>>>>> legitimizations. If you are using Tombo.pt to access the records,
>>>>>>>>>> it's easy
>>>>>>>>>> to tell which churches kept these books. I don't know why your
>>>>>>>>>> ancestor
>>>>>>>>>> names one couple and then another as her parents. You could have
>>>>>>>>>> inadvertently have the wrong record. Maybe your ancestor gave the
>>>>>>>>>> name of
>>>>>>>>>> the couple that raised her (although that's unlikely in the Azorean
>>>>>>>>>> records
>>>>>>>>>> - they just usually say pais incognitos), or maybe she knew who they
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> and was naming the real ones. It's really hard to actually know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the best strategy for you would be to work from the known
>>>>>>>>>> to the unknown. Work the lines with the known parents to gain the
>>>>>>>>>> experience and search techniques that you need. Once you are getting
>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>>> comfortable with your research skills, then go tackle those mystery
>>>>>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>>>>> Good luck,
>>>>>>>>>> Cheri Mello
>>>>>>>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>>>>>>>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>>>>>>>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 12:51 PM <leonor....@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am new to the group and to Genealogy in general. I was always
>>>>>>>>>>> curious but I finally took the plunge in January. I am hoping to
>>>>>>>>>>> get some
>>>>>>>>>>> guidance from those more experienced. Here's a little bit of my
>>>>>>>>>>> story:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My father is from Aljezur (small town in Algarve). I do not know
>>>>>>>>>>> much about his family, he went to Sao Miguel, Azores in the army,
>>>>>>>>>>> where he
>>>>>>>>>>> met my mother. Money was tight, so we never met his family. The
>>>>>>>>>>> story is
>>>>>>>>>>> that my grandmother worked in a brothel or was a lady of the night.
>>>>>>>>>>> She had
>>>>>>>>>>> 3 kids, 2 boys and a girl, I believe. My birth certificate says
>>>>>>>>>>> that my
>>>>>>>>>>> paternal grandfather is unknown, however, my brother's says that it
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> someone by the name of Joao Afonso de Oliveira. My brother is 11
>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>> older than I, I'm not sure what happened in those 11 years that
>>>>>>>>>>> made my
>>>>>>>>>>> father forget who his father was. My father did not have a last
>>>>>>>>>>> name, his
>>>>>>>>>>> name was Armando Joao. Myself and my siblings were given the last
>>>>>>>>>>> name of
>>>>>>>>>>> Oliveira. To complicate matters, my mother did not have a last name
>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>> but she went by (Maria Amelia) Soares Manteiga. I have been able to
>>>>>>>>>>> find a
>>>>>>>>>>> lot of baptismal certificates which explains some things, I have
>>>>>>>>>>> even been
>>>>>>>>>>> able to connect with a 4th cousin by DNA and through our trees. If
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't complicated enough, I found out that my great grandmother
>>>>>>>>>>> (on my
>>>>>>>>>>> mother's side) was an "exposta". Some documents she lists one
>>>>>>>>>>> couple as her
>>>>>>>>>>> parents and in other documents she names a different couple. Both
>>>>>>>>>>> couples
>>>>>>>>>>> are different from her godparents. I would like to know if there
>>>>>>>>>>> are any
>>>>>>>>>>> records, that you know of, for the "expostos", who raised them? Is
>>>>>>>>>>> there a
>>>>>>>>>>> database I can look at? There is a blank from the time my great
>>>>>>>>>>> grandmother
>>>>>>>>>>> was baptized and when she got married. My grandmother (my mother's
>>>>>>>>>>> mom)
>>>>>>>>>>> lived in the Azil for 4 years after her husband died. She had 4
>>>>>>>>>>> young
>>>>>>>>>>> children and could not afford to raise them on her own so the
>>>>>>>>>>> entire family
>>>>>>>>>>> lived in the Azil until my grandmother remarried. Is there any way
>>>>>>>>>>> for me
>>>>>>>>>>> to find out any more information about this? I was born in Sao
>>>>>>>>>>> Miguel, I
>>>>>>>>>>> have been in Canada for bout 36 years, I am fluent in Portuguese
>>>>>>>>>>> but I am
>>>>>>>>>>> having a difficult time with this, I think it's because I am doing
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong searches, or lack of experience. Thank you in advance!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>> .
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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