> From: Pere Porta Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:06 AM > > We have here, Steve, a word with a double meaning: spring and thought. > > Have you a good Hebrew dictionary? Look at it.
Thanks Pere! Perhaps I am not using them to full advantage, but TWOT, BDB, Holladay & Davidson do not show "thought" as a meaning. Klein has a meaning "weighed carefully", "consider", but no Biblical references. What's more important, no instance of מעינ* in the Tanach means "thought". There are only 2 meanings that I see: "spring" or "from eyes". Just give me some Biblical refs where the word means "thought". > This is a quite common fact in nearly every language: a word that means two, > three... different things. Yes, that is true. But I don't think it is that common for a word to have 2 different meanings, where both are the same part of speech. If there are a lot of these, the language would be confusing. For example, cases such as "saw" = a tool for cutting wood, and "saw" = past tense for "to see" is common. > > In English:* ban* means 'edict, proclamation' and also 'to forbid'. For all practical purposes, "ban" does not mean 'edict, proclamation'. The 2 online dictionaries (Merriam-Webster & Heritage) I use do not give that as a possible meaning. If you use "ban" to mean that, no English speaker will understand you. This is an example of what I mean. It is not common for a word to have 2 unrelated meanings where both are the same part of speech. > Concerning our word: > --if we consider the meaning 'spring', then the base is 'ayin' (a noun) > --if we consider the meaning 'thought', then the base is 'iyyen' (a verb > pi'el). I can't follow your transliteration of the verb. > Take a look here: > http://www.oham.net/out/P-t/P-t337.html I don't get your point with the above site. "thought" is there as the meaning of a totally different word. > Heartly, > Pere Porta > (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain) 2010/10/11 Steve Miller <[email protected]> > Thanks Pere, > I don't see the word ever meaning "thoughts". Would God say, "All My > thoughts are in Zion"? It is some deep source of enjoyment. I would > translate the word literally as "springs" and let the reader deduce the > abstraction for himself. I think the meaning in Ps 87:7 is similar to Prov > 5:15-23, that a man should enjoy his wife and not another woman. God has > that kind of relationship with Zion. > > Sincerely, > -Steve Miller > Detroit > www.voiceInWilderness.info <http://www.voiceinwilderness.info/> > No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. > His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. - > Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > From: Pere Porta Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:10 AM > > Dear Steve, > > only a remark. > "kol ma'yanay bakh" ---- I think this would better be translated as "all my > thoughts (are) in you" > All my mind is on you. > > Noun 'ma'yan' has two meanings: 'spring' and 'thought'. > In Psa 74:15 it clearly means 'spring'. But here, in Psa 87:7, its meaning > is 'thought'. > > This is what I think. > > Pere Porta > 2010/10/4 Steve Miller <[email protected]> > I have a number of questions on this puzzling psalm. Here are the 2 > biggest: > > *Q1 - v3 Glorious things are spoken of Thee, O city of God. Selah > The problem is that the verb "are spoken", מְדֻבָּ֣ר, is 3ms, but the > supposed subject נִ֭כְבָּדוֹת is fem. plural. > I think this means that the "glorious things" are not what is being spoken > but rather describes the speaking. > > Song of Songs 8:8 is similar: ... what shall we do for our sister in the > day when she shall be spoken for? > מַֽה־נַּעֲשֶׂה֙ לַאֲחֹתֵ֔נוּ בַּיּ֖וֹם שֶׁיְּדֻבַּר־בָּֽהּ > > Here the same passive verb דבר is 3ms followed by the same preposition ב > and the subject "our sister" (by way of the relative pronoun) is fem. > singular. This mismatch between subject and verb is because it is not the > sister who is being spoken, but it is a marriage proposal that is the thing > spoken. > > 1 Sam 25:39 also uses DBR followed by B preposition for marriage proposal. > Here the verb is active and 3ms agrees with the subject "David". > > I think the meaning of Ps 87:3 is, "Glorious is your being spoken for" or > "Glorious is your courtship". > > Is this reasonable? > > > *Q2 - v7 - And singers like dancers (?), all my springs are in thee. > The big problem for me is how to translate כְּחֹלְלִ֑ים. It is translated > as either dancers based on root חול or pipers based on root חָלִיל, both of > which seem like guesses to me. > Another problem is how to translate the כ preposition. Most translate it > "as well as", but I don't think כ can have that meaning. Normally it just > means "like". > Another problem is how to handle there being no verb there. > > I think the most straightforward way to translate כְּחֹלְלִ֑ים would be > "like slain ones" as in the following psalm 88:6, where the full > preposition, כְּמ֤וֹ, is used instead of just the prefix. > > So I would translate it as: "And [the] singers [are] like slain ones. All > my springs are in thee. > > Comments? > > Thanks in advance. > > > Sincerely, > -Steve Miller > Detroit > www.voiceInWilderness.info <http://www.voiceinwilderness.info/> > As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am > a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene. - Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > -- > Pere Porta > "Ei nekrói ouk eguéirontai, fágomen kai píomen áurion gar apothnéskomen" > (1Cor 15:32) _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
