--- On Thu, 3/17/11, David Kolinsky <[email protected]> wrote:
From: David Kolinsky <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ra`yon and `inyan and what can be learned To: "K Randolph" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 12:27 AM Karl, With regard to what is written below, suffice it to say that I disagree with much of it. However, I have given it some consideration (as much as I have time for). And I will say that I have revised my understanding of Jb 139:17, I see it now as this: "Your eyes have seen my unformed-lump, and upon your recounting is all of them ((meaning: It is upon G-d, his task, to have oversight of all of the unformed lumps of humanity)), they shall be impressed (blueprinted so to speak), it will be a matter of days- they shall be formed. And with regard to it (my lump), it is but one among them. And with regard to me, how precious are those that you are mindful of ( vs those you take delight in). How densely packed (vs numerous) are their heads. Were I to count them, they are more numerous then the sand. I awaken (meaning: come to life) and enduringly, I am with you." So you see, although we do not agree with the translation, necessarily, you have been successful to some degree in changing my opinion about its meaning. If there others on the list, not sick of our posts, I would love to hear others opinions about this translation. I do not have time to comment on all your other points, unfortunately. Count it as a partial win for you. Cordially,' David Kolinsky Monterey, CA --- On Wed, 3/16/11, K Randolph <[email protected]> wrote: From: K Randolph <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ra`yon and `inyan and what can be learned To: "David Kolinsky" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 5:01 PM David: From your response, I see that there are places where people will disagree based on their understanding. How much are your responses based on the Masoretic points, which I have found to be untrustworthy (similar to looking at cognate languages, sometimes giving insights, usually unimportant, sometimes can lead astray)? How much of your response is based on tradition? רעע in my understanding has also an active meaning, “making displeasing” which can be affected through breaking, marring, distorting, going bad, etc. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 4:04 PM, David Kolinsky <[email protected]> wrote: Karl: For the most part, I also rely on the Tanakh to inform my understanding of Biblical Hebrew.So here is a list from the Tanakh 1b to shout (Is16:10) So how does לא ירעע יין refer to shouting? From the context it sounds like that wine won’t go bad because there won’t be any. 2b - Ra(a( (רעע) - to VIBRATE (move back and forth), shatter / impair (Jr15:12) , be broken down (Jr15:12)(Jb34:24) Where do you get VIBRATE (move back and forth) from? I have yet to find that meaning anywhere. Especially not in these verses. Jeremiah הירע ברזל ברזל מצפון ונחשת Here we recognize that steel is meant, does not steel make displeasing (by breaking, disfiguring) steel from the north and bronze? Job ירע כבירים לא-חקר ויעמד אחרים תחתם he makes displeasing (by breaking, tearing, disfiguring) blankets without number (not investigated) and he makes others take their place. 3a - Ra( (רע) - perception, thought (Ps139:2,17) 2 אתה ידעת שבתי וקומי בנתה לרעי מרחוק you know my settling down and my rising up, it is built up for my feeding from a distance. God knows so that he can provide for us even from afar. I can see where you get your understanding, but I question it, yet at the same time I am not happy with how I understand it. Neither are smooth from the Hebrew. For your reading, this is not the normal second person singular in a context full of normal second person singular verbs. Are there any alternate readings for this verse? The LXX follows your understanding. 17 ולי—מה-יקרו רעיך אל מה עצמו ראשיהם how precious to me are your neighbors God, how numerically mighty are their heads ? I.e. those who surround God are precious and mighty (angels?). 3b - Ra(aH (רעה) - to welcome, befriend, desire, take delight in, enjoy MaR(aH companion (Jd14:20); to enjoy (Ps37:3) Judges 14:20 ותהי אשת שמשון למרעהו אשר רעה לו and Samson’s woman became to his friend who was a neighbor to him (better translation: Samson’s wife became his neighbor and friend’s wife) Psalm 37:3 בטח ביהוה ועשה-טוב שכן-ארץ ורעה אמונה have confidence in the LORD and do that which is pleasing, dwell the land and feed on trustworthiness (faith) where I see poetic use of words in parallel with having confidence in the LORD. This is not a literal, physical feeding on, rather indicating where spiritual strength comes from. Cordially, David KolinskyMonterey CA I still don’t see where 1b, 2b and 3b can be substantiated, and 3a I find questionable. One verse that can be questioned is hardly a proof. There is another verb, ירע YR( that we haven’t discussed so far in this interchange, which has the meaning of flapping in the wind, from which curtain is derived. Some of the conjugations of that verb are identical (in an unpointed text) to some conjugations from R(( and R(H. Karl W. Randolph. _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
