Dear brother in Christ "El" as "the chief of God' does not neccessarily to be a proper noun/name. Consider in militay system. "General" is the highest position compare to Leutnan, Major, and so on, but no doubt "General" is a common noun. Thus in the case of 'El" found in archeology we should need much more data how many words of El were treated in that. In Tanakh, El is absolutely common noun. There is no way one word can be both common and proper noun. Kristian H. Sugiyarto Indonesia
--- On Sat, 6/8/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 104, Issue 3 To: [email protected] Received: Saturday, 6 August, 2011, 11:00 AM Send b-hebrew mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of b-hebrew digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Idioms (Jack Kilmon) 2. El = God? (Chavoux Luyt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:47:55 -0500 From: "Jack Kilmon" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Idioms To: "Hebrew" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <4B7E1A46DBB045C4BB2744621393453B@JackPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response That's interesting, Doug. I have never been clear that the concept of a Messiah, other than that of someone who had been anointed/smeared with oil as a sort of "badge of honor," existed prior to the late second temple period. I think the concept of a salvific warrior-priest began to crystalize during the gruesome persecution of the Pharisees by Jonathan/Alexander Jannaeus (the "wicked priest" of Pesher Habakkuk) and evolved during the hegemony of the "kittim" (Romans). I think we see the beginnings of Messianic "hope" beginning to form in 4Q175 (Testimonia) with its TWO Messiahs, the Davidic warrior king who will kick butt and restore Israel and his sidekick, the priestly Messiah; and the Manual of Discipline 1QS. This suggests that the author of the 2nd temple concept may have been the Moreh haTsaddik himself. I think the conjoining of the two Messiahs, as found in CD, occurred during the "kittim" period post 63 BCE. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Doug Belot Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 5:36 PM To: Jack Kilmon Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Idioms Hi Jack , would you include "daughter of Zion" , 2nd Kga 19:21 , Zec 9:9 , Math 21:5 , John 12:15 , , this being a reference to Israel during the era of the Prophets, Zion is Israel before the Messaih and daughter of Zion is the Israel that welcomed the Messiah , Math 21:5,Joh12:15. doug belot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Kilmon" <[email protected]> To: "Hebrew" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Idioms > Hi all: > > First, if there are any Muslim members, may I offer my best wishes for > Ramadan. > > I have found in my Aramaic background studies relevant to the NEW > Testament > that idiom is very often overlooked in doing exegesis. I would be very > interested if some members would post examples of Hebrew idioms, > euphemisms, > metaphors and figures of speech from the Tanakh that often go unclarified > but which may affect exegesis, particularly by Christians. Perhaps there > is > a seminal work on this as well. > > Thanks, > > Jack > > Jack Kilmon > Houston, TX > > _______________________________________________ > b-hebrew mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3809 - Release Date: 08/04/11 05:11:00 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:48:00 +0200 From: Chavoux Luyt <[email protected]> Subject: [b-hebrew] El = God? To: [email protected] Message-ID: <CAPGeeiFqcSDiF3LF25S8P8ZkUX5=mmobq2p9hmfdgbkzkrn...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi every-one I have read in various (archaeological) sources that the "chief god" of the Canaanite pagans were called "El" with the implication that "El" was a personal name rather than being the generic word for "god". Of course in the Hebrew religion of the Bible, there was only one God and it would be legitimate to simply call Him "God" as a "personal name" of sorts. It seems to me however, the in the Hebrew Scriptures the term "Ha-Elohim" ("the Gods", but with singular verbs) is normally used instead of only "El" and that when "El" is used as a personal name it is normally as part of a compound name (e.g. El Shaddai, El Gibor, El Elyon etc.). My question is basically this: is there any evidence that the Hebrews used "El" on its own as a personal name? Or is it rather used as the generic term for "God" only? Can this be considered as a semantic difference between Hebrew and Canaanite usage or may the interpretation of "El" as a personal name instead of a generic term for "god" in ANE archaeology simply be mistaken? Regards Chavoux Luyt ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew End of b-hebrew Digest, Vol 104, Issue 3 **************************************** _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
