Nir and members of the group, For a variety of reason's, I still do not agree - a word can have multiple meanings and still be of the same root. But, we do not have to agree. And I admit that because of my lack of free time, I have not put the time into making my case adequately. Nevertheless, thank you for your input - I greatly appreciate your voice on this matter.
I am curious how willing members of the group would translate $LM in (Jb41:3) - because I believe this to have a similarly unconventional translation. david kolinsky Monterey CA ________________________________ From: Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, May 2, 2013 1:54:44 PM Subject: [b-hebrew] Y(D: appointment without suffering david, i must add my voice to karl and pere: you are correct that Ex:20 and Amos 3 use the same root. but anyway you look at it, there is no "endure" there. first, there is no CLEAR example in the OT where ENDURE is the ONLY solution, or even the MOST PLAUSIBLE solution, or even just PLAUSIBLE. and there are CLEAR examples where this is NOT the right translation, e.g. 2sam 20:5. ה וייחר (וַיּוֹחֶר), מִן-הַמּוֹעֵד אֲשֶׁר יְעָדוֹ. {ס} 5 but he tarried longer than the set time which he had appointed him. {S} second, it goes a long way from the paradigm of the bilateral root (D ("till"). the essence of "endure" is not the endpoint, it is what you go through till you get there, and usually denoted by SBL, TL)WT etc. quite on the contrary, the other suggested meanings: to designate, to meet, witness, till, fixed date [MW(D] do connect with this paradigm, and endow perfect sense to these phrases. ------------------ הֲיֵלְכוּ שְׁנַיִם, יַחְדָּו, בִּלְתִּי, אִם-נוֹעָדוּ. (*) (amos 3:3) similar to the buddhist question: "can you clap one hand?" and the modern "it takes two to dance the tango". more so, if you go on and read the sequel amos 3:4-6. all these questions asked have one meaning in common: tautology, or logic. and it is in this spirit that one should read also (*). clearly, the drash here is the union of the hebrews with god, where again enduring is not appropriate. -------------- אִם-רָעָה בְּעֵינֵי אֲדֹנֶיהָ, אֲשֶׁר-לא (לוֹ) יְעָדָהּ--וְהֶפְדָּהּ: לְעַם נָכְרִי לֹא-יִמְשֹׁל לְמָכְרָהּ, בְּבִגְדוֹ-בָהּ. in examining this phrase, please read leake's remark below: >>>De: John Leake <[email protected]> I meant are there more cases of אשר לו פעל 'asher lô [verb] where lô refers to the verbal subject. indeed, אֲדֹנֶיהָ, אֲשֶׁר-לא (לוֹ) יְעָדָהּ represents a legal merism: her owner, then repeating, who designated her to him. recall that at that time the owner did not need to present any reason for not liking a slave, nor would the law ask for such a reason. also, had "endure" been the correct translation, the phrase should be WL) Y(DH rather than )$R L) Y(DH. --------- one more thing: as mentioned before, the meaning in arabic is similar; and moreover the root W(D is attested in akkadian, and the root Y(D (indirectly) in ugaritic, and they have the same approximate meaning: to fix. see allan rosengren petersen' book, p 68, quoting among others 2sam 20:5. this book can be seen in http://books.google.com.br/books?id=5gDpnBt5vsQC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=y%27d+w%27d+akkadian&source=bl&ots=AeJXGPDClE&sig=Jd-H6VAIvcH0ahphTOpA5Ty2Ub8&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ei=Es2CUdrMJdHJ0gHyvoGYAQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=y%27d%20w%27d%20akkadian&f=false nir cohen _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
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