first of all it seems a mess of an editing/redacting job. secondly was it not Elhanan who slaughtered Goliat? as for who's elohav, naturally i grabbed the ol' concordantzia and found evidence for both cases.
uzi silber On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <[email protected]>wrote: > dear uri, yigal, > > if i may continue uri's comment, plus some free imagination... > > it seems (1chr 20:5)that david's > wars with the philisteus took place much later, when david was > reigning in jerusalem. actually, before that david appears as an > ally of the philisteus (1sam 21, 27), though at other places, > a foe (1sam 19,23). and the sword of goliath was with the high > sacerdote (1sam 21:10). it is really remarkable that the text makes david > borrow this sword exactly when he flees to ... the philisteus! > > this is just too much contradiction. here is a historical > interpretation which does not take the text to be historically correct. > > david establishes himself as a local leader in judah, and a dissident to > saul's reign. as his military power is too small for direct confrontation, > he > avoids direct war, flees to no man's land and eventually joins forces with > the > philisteus (saul's main enemies). after the philisteus destroy saul in > battle, > david fills in the space and assumes the throne, and with it his tribe > judah > becomes prominent. then his interests change and he starts fighting against > his former allies, the philisteus. the rest is just stories invented by the > narrator (clearly of david's followers) directed at masking david's devious > strategy. in particular, he portrays the war with goliath and other wars > against the philisteus as if they occurred at a time when he was really > joining forces with them. > > of course, all this is pure conjecture, and is not backed up by the text. > > as to the other issue, which god it was, at least the text indeed implies > that > davi's god was involved rather than goliath's. see 1sam 17:26,36. and > especially 45-47. > > nir cohen > > >>>>De: Uri Hurwitz <[email protected]> > Para: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Data: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:58:39 -0700 (PDT) > Responder a: Uri Hurwitz <[email protected]> > > > Yigal, > > Exactly as you say about the first point: it could be read both ways. > My > first reaction is that it refers to David's god/s. > > As for the second question: we're dealing here with a truncated version > of a > final narrator or redactor. One simply cannot extract the historical > background of the narrative, except, perhaps, of an Israelite victory over > the > Philistines. > > For the possible real background to the Samuel account of the David's > victory over Goliath is , as is well known, in the Elhanan story in I > Chronicles 20:5. > > I am curious to read your paper! > > Ezov haqyr, > > Uri Hurwitz > > > * > ________________________________ > > >>> Dear all, Next week I will be presenting a paper at the IOSOT congress > in > Munich, > which I called "By Whose God did Goliath Curse and Where did David Take his > Head?". Before doing so, I'd like to present both questions to the members > of our forum, and see if your reading of the text comes up with the same > understanding as mine. So here goes: 1. In 1 Sam. 17:43, Goliath, upon > seeing > David armed with a slingshot, says > "Am I a dog, that you comest to me with staves?", and the text then adds: > “וַיְקַלֵּל הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי אֶת-דָּוִד בֵּאלֹהָיו” – "and the Philistine > cursed David by his …. So that's my question: Did Goliath curse David by > his > (Goliath's) gods, or by his (David's) God". The Hebrew אלהיו is plural in > form, but the Bible often uses the plural form אלהים when referring to the > one God of Israel. So the text could mean either. What do you think? 2. > After > killing Goliath, David cut off his head. Then, according to verse > 54, "And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, > and he put his vessels in his tent". Why in the world would David run to > Jerusalem (which at the time was ruled by the Jebusites) with a bloody > head? > Especially if in verse 57 he is still on the battlefield, and still has the > head! And by the way, whose tent? So – what do y'all think? Yigal Levin > > > > _______________________________________________ > b-hebrew mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew >
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