On 05/03/07, George Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So, your major objection to real is that it isn't free software?
My major objection would be the formats aren't available for other people to implement. Unless of course they are available, and they just haven't been implemented. If they are available do you know where?
From what I've seen, sometimes I've got that, sometimes not - so I imagine it depends on the implementation by the content provider - not Real/Helix's fault.
It's always failled when I tried the Helix plugin with the BBC site.
Most things on Windows look like trojans to me. The fact that Real looked bad for you on windows doesn't make it bad for me on GNU/Linux or Sol, or whatever....
Of course, but it does increase the likelihood of it being nasty, once bitten twice shy and all that.
> If it doesn't do anything bad why is the source code hidden?! A good argument. Here's some source.
How does some code prove that the other part isn't hostile? Give the guys some credit, if I was to write a backdoor into a program and then decide to release some of it I would make sure not to release backdoor.c (I would never actually write a backdoor into anything, but that's not my point).
Vorbis recommend the Real stuff (http://www.vorbis.com/software/#linux)
I'm not sure they actually recommend it, they are just listing players that support OGG. I doubt they are recommending the Real Media formats.
However, no-one uses ogg
You don't mean no-one ;). Because you said you used it, (further down). And I use it.
(see James Cridland's mail about Virgin's ogg),
Got a link?
and we (the BBC) make stuff that we want people to use.
You work for the BBC? You seem nicer than I imagined for a BBC employee. And appear to have a good knowledge of computing, nice to see there are some good people at the BBC.
We also make our own codecs, which I'm sure one day we hope people will also use.
Dirac? Why does it need to be your own codec, why not help with ogg, or is there something fundamentally different? (my knowledge of audio compression is a very basic, I know of Delta encoding, not much use though is it really ;)?
In the meantime, people do use real. I use Ogg. I'm not all people. The BBC has done ogg trials, and might do them again. It seems curious to blame real for the fact that people don't use ogg, or to ignore their implementation of a free server in favour of an ogg one - or have I got your argument the wrong way around?
I don't blame Real, I blame Real for not letting me listen to streams with the software I want t use. I blame the BBC for advocating a certain commercial entity at the expense of others. I actually find it amusing that DJ's have to make sure not to mutter phrases that relate to a company, yet the BBC is allowed to plaster ads for companies like Real Networks and Microsoft on its website and even require users to do business with these companies. You seem to be saying that implementing ogg would mean many people couldn't listen, I don't understand this. I can find a media player that will play an ogg stream licensed in such a way that the BBC can distribute it itself. I also never suggested only providing ogg streams. (If I gave this impression I apologise. I personally disagree with using Real Player and Windows, I don't expect the BBC to force people not to use Real Player, but I do expect the BBC to give me a choice of what I run on my machine). Incidentally is the BBC willing to acceptable responsibility for any damage incurred as a result of installing or running Real Player?
http://www.real.com/realmobile/palmone.html Minimum Requirements 1. PalmOne OS5-based device with ARM processor
Well I'll be damned it does run on ARM.
Well, I think your main point seems to be 'the BBC should use ogg' - which, if correct, I wouldn't have bothered responding to (this isn't yet, /. as much as it seems like it sometimes)
Why precisely does a suggestion of "why don't you use ogg" not deserve a response? I of course don't mean exclusively use OGG, just let me listen on any software I want. Of course if you know of a better format that has an open specification feel free to share it. You have yet to provide a good reason why you can't offer OGG along side Real. In fact I have never received a satisfactory response to why it must be real player formats. And don't even get me started on the use of ActiveX on the BBC site. (and I don't find being told to download ActiveX from the Microsoft website very helpful when I explicitly said I use Linux, and the BBC never bothered to respond after I told then I thought this advice was not useful). Interestingly a quick googling found a proposed standard for RTSP. I wonder why its only proposed it's been there nearly 10 years. Maybe they had problems with the 2 independent implementations issue? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
