On Wednesday 21 November 2007 23:35:46 Tim Dobson wrote:
> This is not an argument about ethics,

Dave keeps turning it into one. I was trying to point out the self same thing 
to him.

> Please consider researching this.

What specifically do you think I don't understand, and on what basis have you 
formed that conclusion?

Dave's posted dozens of mails railing against DRM from an ethical perspective, 
and I was pointing out the sad futility (IMO) of such an approach. There is a 
certain level of irony in that you're taking me to task for saying precisely 
the same thing to Dave. I've yet to see an argument based on ethics win a 
debate at work. (he's the one who brings up (his) ethics *over* and *over* 
and *over* again). It's great for sympathy, but rarely actually wins an 

I have seen many a discussion & debate won based on open standards
though, for all the obvious reasons. (Heck I've talked publicly (with
authorisation) on behalf of the BBC stating some of the reasons why
open source is a good way of promoting an open standard and why
open standards are a good idea).

However any arguments based on open standards do need to take facts into
account though. Such as this one: The BBC is currently required by the rights
holders to use DRM. 

Tell me how you can have a DRM system that's completely free software,
and I'll readily listen and push for such an approach. (I doubt I'll get 
anywhere, but I'll try)

The two ideas strike me as fundamentally opposed concepts. After all  one
tries to protect your right to use your system in any way you like (for me
modifying it the system is a use), whereas the other tries to prevent you
using your computer to do something. I've said this before of course.
No-one has yet said how they'd securely prevent trivial access to the
keys and trivially prevent data dumping (ala vlc's dump to disk option).

So personally I can't actually see how you can have a completely free software
DRM system and have that system viewed as _sufficiently secure_ from the
DRM proponents side of things. Kinda like a chocolate tea pot. I like to be
proved wrong about things things. (chocolate is good too)

If you can't do that, then you can't have an iPlayer that's completely free
software with the current agreements and service license from the BBC
Trust. If you don't like that you need to get the rights holders and/or the 
BBC Trust to change their minds.

Since I suspect I'm just going to get patronised further, I think I'll stop at 
this point.

(all personal opinion and certainly not my employer's, I claim any and all
inaccuracies for me and me alone :-)
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