----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Khazeh Fananapazir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Baha'i Studies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Marzieh Gail's translation


Dear Brother Richard Gravelly

Thank you for your very kind words.

God forbid that I [as kf] could have opened any brother or sister's eyes.

We are all in this journey together. We all learn together.
I am your servant and nothing.

Opening eyes reminds me how the Prophet of God Elisha in the Old Testament
prayed for opening of eyes.
How often the Master prayed for eyes opening.

You too pray that my eyes be open...

***
 2Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes,
that he may see. ***
 Psalms 119:18 ¶ Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out
of thy law.

 Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold
thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people,
for a light of the Gentiles;
 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and
them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

[This latter passage of Isaiah makes me think of Plato and his Republic and
the parable of the Cave]

***
I beseech Thee, by Thy Most Great Name, to open the eyes of Thy servants,
that they may behold Thee shining above the horizon of Thy majesty and
glory, and that they may not be hindered by the croaking of the raven from
hearkening to the voice of the Dove of Thy sublime oneness, nor be prevented
by the corrupt waters from partaking of the pure wine of Thy bounty and the
everlasting streams of Thy gifts.
 (Baha'u'llah:  Prayers and Meditations, Page: 106)
****
 I entreat Thee, therefore, O my God, by Thy Name through which Thou hast
guided Thy lovers to the living waters of Thy grace and Thy favours, and
attracted them that long for Thee to the Paradise of Thy nearness and Thy
presence, to open the eyes of Thy people that they may recognize in this
Revelation the manifestation of Thy transcendent unity, and the dawning of
the lights of Thy countenance and Thy beauty.
 (Baha'u'llah:  Prayers and Meditations, Page: 307)


as to the specifics of your kind questions
word by word rendering may or may not help.
I was just offering that the original word in the Sacred Seven Valley text
is different from the word Z.uhur....
the Beloved Shoghi Effendi wrote something very beautiful and wonderful in
the beginning of the Book of Certitude that is an incredible lesson for all
time...

As to your second question re *facilitated*... below.
All the Divine Manifestations do *facilitate* in this sense you mention...
***
 John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet
hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
 Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
[pan to plhrwma ths Theothtos swmatikws]

Baha'u'llah has revealed the station of the Father
[but you and every one on this list knows these matters better than
me...please forgive me and in the station of Oneness They are all One]...
***
 If the Son of Man was capable of infusing into apparently so crude and
helpless an instrument such potency as to cause, in the words of
Baha'u'llah, "the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his
mouth," and to exalt him above the rest of His disciples, and render him fit
to become His successor and the founder of His Church, how much more can the
Father, **Who is Baha'u'llah**, empower the most puny and insignificant
among His followers to achieve, for the execution of His purpose, such
wonders as would dwarf the mightiest achievements of even the first apostle
of Jesus Christ!
 (Shoghi Effendi:  The Advent of Divine Justice, Page: 46)
***

We are living in the most challenging day but the incredible incredible
bloodshed between the followers of different faiths makes our work our most
great work unbelievably difficult...

This is the most great work!  Should you become confirmed therein, this
world will become another world, the surface of the earth will become the
delectable paradise, and eternal Institutions be founded.
 (`Abdu'l-Baha:  Tablets of the Divine Plan, Page: 106)


your loving humble servant
khazeh






----- Original Message -----
From: Richard H. Gravelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Baha'i Studies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 March 2004 23:20
Subject: Marzieh Gail's translation


> Thank you very much Khazeh.
>
> You have opened my eyes to some of the difficulty involved in translation.
> With your indulgence; I would like to ask one or two more questions of
you.
>
> 1.  Is a word for word translation possible (without regard to sense,
> grammar or syntax); or is that what you have given me as a "possible
> paraphrasing"?
>
> 2.  Has Baha'u'llah facilitated, do you think, "that all may bear witness
in
> their own selves by their own selves in
> relation to that which is "effulged" by their Lord in that station : that
> there is no God but He...*" by revealing prayers regarding which Shoghi
> Effendi has said; or has had said on his behalf:
>
> "but our prayers would certainly be more effective and illuminating if
they
> are addressed to Him through His Manifestation Bahá'u'lláh." ?
>
>  (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 58)
>
> Richard.



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