On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:44:19 -0800 (PST), JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:46:17 -0800 (PST), JS wrote: > > > > Gilberto: > > As far as I can tell, this whole thing started because I was drawing a > > distinction between Christianity and Islam and Bahais seem to be > > refusing to recognize that difference. > > > > J: But there are parallels and similarities. The whole point is, > > Christians reject the Qur'an because Jesus has the last word on > > everything... > > G: > John 16 > [12] "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. > [13] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the > truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he > hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to > come. > > > JS: > > Indeed, very true, and that Person is Muhammad-the Bab-Baha'u'llah.
Bahais are accusing both Muslims and Christians of believing in their own finality, and Bahais say both are wrong. One distinction which can be made is that Chistians actually accept that John 16 really does mean that Jesus didn't actually explain or spell everything out during his earthly ministry and that more guidance would definitely and clearly come later. But the passages you quote from the Quran are not understood by Muslims that way. > > Some analogous verses from the Qur'an are: > > Qur'an 11:102-7 ...In that is a Sign for those who fear the penalty of the > Hereafter: that is a Day for which mankind will be gathered together: that > will be a Day of Testimony. Nor shall We delay it but for a term appointed. > The day it arrives, no soul shall speak except by His leave: of those > (gathered) some will be wretched and some will be blessed. Those who are > wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) > the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that > the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord > is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth. Allahu alim (God knows best) but it doesn't make sense to read this as a reference to the Bahai faith. It seems to lack something. Do you know about the Covenant of Alast? Sometimes it's called the Pre-eternal Covenant. It's mentioned in the Quran. [7.172] And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls: Am I not your Lord? They said: Yes! we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of resurrection: Surely we were heedless of this. It's called the covenant of Alast because "Alasta Rabbikum" is "Am I not your Lord". In some sense, all the human beings who were ever going to be (including me and you) were asked by God "Am I not your Lord" and all of us said "yes". I don't like guessing so I'm not going to say that what I'm about to say is a definite interpretation but I would say that it makes more sense to me that the Judgement is a similar kind of event. What I mean is that it is an event which actually involves all of humanity. "that is a Day for which mankind will be gathered together: that > will be a Day of Testimony. " > > Qur'an 69:17 And the angels will be on the sides thereof, and eight will > uphold the Throne of thy Lord that day, above them. > How does the above fit in? > Qur'an 50:20 And the Trumpet shall be blown: that will be the Day whereof > Warning (had been given). And there will come forth every soul: with each > will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness. > Same Question? > Qur'an 39:68-69 And there shall be a blast on the Trumpet, and all who are > in the Heaven and all who are on the earth shall expire, save those whom God > shall vouchsafe to live. Then shall there be another blast on it, and lo! > arising they shall gaze around them: and the earth shall shine with the > light of her Lord. Same Question? > > Qur'an 7:30: He will return you (on the Day of Judgment) reverted back to > when you were first created. A section guided, and a section will go astray. > ? > Qur'an 43:61 : And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of > Judgment: therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this > is a Straight Way. Yes, both Muslims and Christians agree Jesus will come back. So this aspect is a wash in terms of the distinction I'm trying to explain. Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
