> JS: I think that two options are presented, and it is left to the House of
> Justice to pick the one most suitable to society.
Gilberto:
But why would that option be presented?
JS: In my view, it is there in case human society makes a sharp left turn. I think it is clear that in this day and age, imprisonment is considered by many as the most humane and civil punishment for murderers and arsonists.----
JS: > In a similar way,
> Baha'u'llah superficially allows bigamy, maybe only to present the Aqdas in
> the form of the Qur'an. And just as the Qur'an conditions polygamy on
> 'justice', and the Aqdas makes 'tranquility' an outcome of only monogamy.
> Who wouldn't want to be tranquil?
G: Yes. And Muslims have at times taken the Quran up on its "offer" and
actually practiced polygamy. So the question remains, why would the
Bahai laws mention the possibility of such a harsh punishment for
arson if it was never meant to be implemented?
JS: I think that the Muslim jury is still out on whether polygamy is allowed or not. But in the Baha'i Faith, it is clearly stated by Abdu'l-Baha that polygamy and bigamy and against the Baha'i Law. The offer of an alternative was presented by Baha'u'llah in both marriage and arsonists: and in the case of marriage it was infallibly interpreted as only meaning 'monogamy'! . I do not know why two options are presented for arsonists, though in my view it is because the Aqdas is written in the form of the Qur'an, which enforces harsh punishments.----
JS:
> Also, don't you think that Islam is going the wrong way, I mean, it is getting
> more corrupted, it is deviating farther and farther away from the ideal?
G: I think that if you look at history civilizations rise and fall and
rise back up again... and fall.. and rise back up again.. etc.JS: Not sure about rising back up. What is an example? Rome never came back, neither did Zoroastrian Persian... I do not believe Islam will ever come back. I think that in the next few decades and centuries, secularism will overtake the planet, until the Baha'i Faith blossoms into maturity and brings spirituality back into civilization and governance.
----
JS: > At one point, the Islamic world was the cradle of civilization, and now it has
> been reduced to fanaticism, terrorism, poverty, ignorance, intolerance, etc.
G: Now you are thinking like a bigot.JS: The statement was an honest summary of what we are fed by western media. I do not necessarily agree with western media.
----
JS: > Not a single praiseworthy Islamic nations exists on earth...
G: The West has the wealth and technologyJS: I am not talking about wealth and technology. I am talking about tolerance and freedom, particularly for (1) women, (2) Baha'is, (3) Jews, (4) Christians, (5) political radicals, etc. And I am thinking about Islamic Republic of Iran in particular. I don't know much about other Islamic countries other than what I read in western media.
----
JS: > What makes
> you think it is going to improve? And the Islamic countries that seem to be
> heading in the right directly are secularized/ing.
G: That's not an observation. It follows from your beliefs about Islam.
For example, Saddam Hussein was a Bathist, a secular Arab nationalist.JS: I did not say all secularists are good. I think what made the Bathists particularly bad was their nationalism, not their secularism.
--
G:
Turkey as a society is rather secularized. The way it got there was
by discriminating against Muslims. Muslim women are not allowed to
wear headscarves in certain public contexts.JS: Do you think it is worse to force women to wear scarves at all times, like in SA, Iran, Taliban-Afghanistan, or to force women not to wear them in certain contexts?
---
G:Religious men aren't allowed to go up to high ranks in the army. I know of someone who was put in jail for giving the Adhan in Arabic. If you are trying to say
that the way for Muslim countries to progress is by persecuting
Muslims who are peacfully practicing their religion I'll have
absolutely no respect for you.JS: No I do not agree with persecuting Muslims. But what Muslim country that follows Muslim laws provides for its people, ensures the security of minorities, and entitles freedoms we have in the West?
----
G: And promoting secularism is also the kind of argument which it is
difficult for a Bahai to make with integrity given that ultimately the
Bahai vision of the future certainly has its theocratic aspects.JS: I am not promoting secularism, I am saying that the world is going in that direction. I do not think it is a good thing because it pushes religion aside. I believe (faith) that the world is going through major changes that will make the world more and more unreligious, a world without a soul. Then, the Baha'i Faith will emerge as a new force and reestablish religion.
----
G: I'm not sure how else to say it. Governments should be accountable to
the citizens. Governments should be responsive to the citizens.
Governments should strive to heed the aspirations, values, hopes,
needs, concerns of the citizens. If the citizens are 90% religious
Muslims, then that has certain implications. If the citizens are 90%
Western secular liberal capitalists, that has certain implications.JS: Do you believe the world needs or requires Islam (Muhammadan, not 'submission')?
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