On 10/16/05, Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/16/05, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm disappointed in you. It is INCREDIBLY dishonest to quote things out of
> > context in this way. You even cut the quote mid-sentence. Read more of the
> > passage.
> >
> > [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so
> > that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends
> > until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then
> > seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among
> > them a friend or a helper.
> > [4.90] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an
> > alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or
> > fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given
> > them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you;
> > therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you
> > peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
> >
> > So who is excepted? Those who you have a treaty with. Those who have stopped
> > fighting. Those who have withdrawn and offered peace. So the people in verse
> > 89 who are being fought against are clearly those who you have no treaty
> > with, and who have not laid down their arms and are continuing to fight
> > against you. But those who are peaceful, ALLAH HAS NOT GIVEN YOU A WAY
> > AGAINST THEM.
>
> > I expected better from you. When the Quran talks about using force against a
> > group of people its not just non-Muslims who are peacefully minding their
> > own business. It is talking about those who have violently attacked the
> > Muslims and have no intention of stopping.
> >
> > [9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at
> > the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them?
> > But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
> >
> > And again, if the Bahai faith were a pacifist religion, then I could see how
> > you could have a problem with the Quran and not be totally hypocritical. But
> > if the Bahai faith allows people to defend themselves, there is no place to
> > criticize what Islam and the Quran actually says about warfare. (as opposed
> > to what Islamophobes accuse Islam of teaching)
>
>
> > Dearest Gilberto
> > You know how much i love you personally and how much i admire appreciate and
> > support your personal convictions.
> >
>
> No, I don't know that. We've never met.
>
> > i just wished to quote some verses that have CONTEXT as their TIME
> > background.
> > Do you see dearest brother?
>
> What you were doing was selectively quoting passages from the Quran
> and trying to argue that they are out of date. That is pretty clearly
> an attempt to undermine their value and relevance.
>
> > i love Islam with all my heart and my soul and mind.
>
> Then why aren't you Muslim?
>
> -Gilberto
>
--
"There are no poets"
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