See the statement from the Research Dept.: http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_napoleon_victoria
Ralph Wagner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baha'i Studies digest" <[email protected]> To: "bahai-st digest recipients" <[email protected]> Subject: bahai-st digest: November 13, 2005 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:00:01 -0500 > > Baha'i Studies List Digest > > BAHAI-ST Digest for Sunday, November 13, 2005. > > 1. Institute Process > 2. Re: Institute Process > 3. RE: Institute Process > 4. Re: Institute Process > 5. Re: Institute Process > 6. Re: Institute Process > 7. RE: Institute Process > 8. Queen Victoria and Napoleon > 9. RE: Queen Victoria and Napoleon > 10. RE: Queen Victoria and Napoleon > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Institute Process > From: "Susan Maneck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:03:15 -0600 > X-Message-Number: 1 > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone have the complete letter (or near complete)wherein this > paragraph is found? > > "... reports from countries of diverse backgrounds suggest that many > national Bah=E1=92=ED communities which have adopted the books of the Ruh= > i > Institute are finding them highly effective. It is natural that any given > educational program would not appeal to everyone and that some would not > wish to participate.... Nevertheless, a choice has been made by the > institutions in your country to offer certain courses to the believers in > the context of their plans to advance the process of entry by troops. The > House of Justice is happy to see from your letter that you respect this > decision and do not want to make your own evaluation of the program a cau= > se > for disunity." > > I'd like to see it without the elipses. > > warmest, Susan > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Institute Process > From: M Chase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 01:42:58 -0800 > X-Message-Number: 2 > > Susan Maneck wrote: > > > ". . . The > > House of Justice is happy to see from your letter that you respect this > > decision and do not want to make your own evaluation of the program a cause > > for disunity." > > > > I'd like to see it without the elipses. > > > > > > I hope when you find the entire letter you will share it with the rest > of us. I am curious to understand how the mere "evaluation of the > program" could be linked to causing disunity. In this limited context, > it almost implies that any negative evaluations should be discounted or > ignored for the sake of unity, which doesn't seem to leave much room for > any alterations if problems arise. Marleen > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Institute Process > From: "Susan Maneck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 04:03:54 -0600 > X-Message-Number: 3 > > > "I am curious to understand how the mere "evaluation of the > program" could be linked to causing disunity." > > Dear Marleen, > > That may be a linkage which the author himself made. That is why it is > always good to have the question as welll. > > "In this limited context, > it almost implies that any negative evaluations should be discounted or > ignored for the sake of unity, which doesn't seem to leave much room for > any alterations if problems arise." > > Nor does it seem conducive to the creation of a 'culture of learning.' > > warmest, Susan > > > > > > > The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto > ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is > intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity > named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy > and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, > distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply > and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any > attachments thereto. Thank you. > > > The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __________________________________________________ > > > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Institute Process > From: M Chase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:19:49 -0800 > X-Message-Number: 4 > > Susan Maneck wrote: > > > Nor does it seem conducive to the creation of a 'culture of learning.' > > > > > Now that you put it that way, it begs the question of what is meant by a > "culture of learning," as if it could possibly mean to exclude negative > feedback or evaluations, leaving learning limited to what is positive > only? Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but there are negative > results in science and scientists hate publishing them because it looks > like failure, that nothing new have been learned. But on the contrary, > such results are valuable because they can point out dead ends in > possible hypotheses or report what hasn't worked so different avenues of > research or different experimental methods can be employed in future > research strategies, saving others from repeating similar mistakes, > which is an advance in knowledge. Given that we are so much more often > mistaken than correct, to ignore failure and mistakes is to discount > perhaps some of the greater influences and sources of knowledge that > actually drive learning to reach the desired results. Marleen > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Institute Process > From: Don Calkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:13:03 -0700 > X-Message-Number: 5 > > At 1:42 AM -0800 11/13/05, M Chase wrote: > > Susan Maneck wrote: > > > >> ". . . The > >> House of Justice is happy to see from your letter that you respect this > >> decision and do not want to make your own evaluation of the program a cause > >> for disunity." > >> > >> I'd like to see it without the elipses. > >> > > > > I hope when you find the entire letter you will share it with the > > rest of us. I am curious to understand how the mere "evaluation > > of the program" could be linked to causing disunity. In this > > limited context, it almost implies that any negative evaluations > > should be discounted or ignored for the sake of unity, which > > doesn't seem to leave much room for any alterations if problems > > arise. Marleen > > > > I assumed that what they were talking about was not bad-mouthing the > Ruhi Curriculum for everybody. > > Don C > > -- > -.-.-.-.- > He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Institute Process > From: "Larry Marquardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:39:22 -0000 > X-Message-Number: 6 > > Is this what you are looking for? > > > From International Teaching Centre Report April 2003 > > . . . The impetus given to the institute process in the past two > years and, in particular, to having the believers proceed through a > sequence of courses was felt on all continents. The number of > participants who have completed at least one institute course in > the basic sequence continues to rise, but the most significant > achievement is that a swelling stream of friends has proceeded > through higher level courses. For example, 18 months into the Five > Year Plan, more than 10,000 believers had completed Ruhi Institute > Book 6, accounting for an increase of over 500 percent since April > 2001, and more than 8,000 had completed Ruhi Institute Book 7, > resulting in a dramatically enlarged pool of trained tutors. > > Gradually most national communities around the world adopted for > their basic sequence of courses the Ruhi Institute curriculum, > which had been developed over many years specifically in response > to large-scale expansion. In light of the focus and energy being > devoted to furthering the institute process in every national > community, concerns were expressed by some believers about the > emphasis on training and the use of a uniform curriculum. In such a > wide-scale enterprise of taking great numbers of friends through a > set curriculum, it is to be expected that some individuals might > not find the materials suited to their learning style. Responding > to this circumstance, the House of Justice made the following > comment in a letter written on its behalf to an individual believer: > > > ... reports from countries of diverse backgrounds suggest that many > national Baha'i communities which have adopted the books of the > Ruhi Institute are finding them highly effective. It is natural > that any given educational program would not appeal to everyone and > that some would not wish to participate.... Nevertheless, a choice > has been made by the institutions in your country to offer certain > courses to the believers in the context of their plans to advance > the process of entry by troops. The House of Justice is happy to > see from your letter that you respect this decision and do not want > to make your own evaluation of the program a cause for disunity. > In another letter written on behalf of the House of Justice, the > relationship of the individual believer to the institute process is > given further clarification: > > > To say that the institute is only useful for newly enrolled > believers and those who read little is not correct. Many mature and > deepened believers are participating in the institute process, both > as students and as teachers of various courses, in an effort to > contribute directly to the promotion of entry by troops in their > respective countries. Through such participation they have > furthered their understanding of the requisites of growth and of > the action required to maintain it, have caught fresh glimpses of > spiritual truths, and have developed their skills and abilities of > service. Far from interfering with their own study of the Writings, > each according to his or her own capacity and needs, their > association with a training institute has enhanced the process. Yet > clearly such participation is not a requirement for every Baha'i, > who, in the final analysis, can choose the manner in which he or > she will serve the Faith. What is essential is that the institute > process be supp! > orted even by those who do not wish to take part in it. > Extracted from :- > Building Momentum: A Coherent Approach to Growth > A document prepared by the International Teaching Centre in April 2003 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Institute Process > From: "Susan Maneck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:37:50 -0600 > X-Message-Number: 7 > > Dear Larry,=20 > > No, that document only quotes the part of that letter I already put up. = > I want the letter they are quoting *from.* There are elipses in that = > quote and I want to know what's missing. > > warmest, Susan=20 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Queen Victoria and Napoleon > From: Tim Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:29:17 -0800 (PST) > X-Message-Number: 8 > > --0-376151617-1131931757=:20383 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Dear Friends, > > Many years ago, a Baha'i told me that when Queen Victoria > received Baha'u'llah's letter, she responded something like this: > "If this is from God, it will endure, > if not, it can do no harm." Baha'is also told me that when > Napoleon III received Baha'u'llah's letter, he responded "If this > man is God, I am two Gods!" > > I have a feeling these are merely legends, but I am interested to know > the source of these stories. Does anyone know the original source for > these > reports? I know there are references to these statements in > Thief in the Night, > but where did William Sears get these stories from? > > Thanks, > Tim Nolan > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > --0-376151617-1131931757=:20383 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > <DIV id=RTEContent>Dear Friends,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV>Many years ago, a Baha'i told me that when Queen > Victoria received Baha'u'llah's letter, she responded something > like this: "If this is from God, it will endure,</DIV> > <DIV>if not, it can do no harm." Baha'is also told me > that when Napoleon III received Baha'u'llah's letter, he > responded "If this man is God, I am two Gods!"</DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a feeling these are merely legends, > but I am interested to know</DIV> <DIV>the source of these > stories. Does anyone know the original source for these</DIV> > <DIV>reports? I know there are references to these > statements in Thief in the Night,</DIV> <DIV>but where did William > Sears get these stories from?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV>Tim Nolan</DIV><p> > <hr size=1> <a > href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/";>Yahoo! > FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one > click.</a> > > > > > --0-376151617-1131931757=:20383-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Queen Victoria and Napoleon > From: "Max Jasper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:37:35 -0700 > X-Message-Number: 9 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C5E881.51583E50 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Some details are here: > =20 > http://studycircle.angeltowns.com/proc_victoria.htm > > Many years ago, a Baha'i told me that when Queen Victoria received > Baha'u'llah's letter, she responded something like this: "If this is = > from > God, it will endure, > if not, it can do no harm." Baha'is also told me that when Napoleon = > III > received Baha'u'llah's letter, he responded "If this man is God, I am = > two > Gods!" > =20 > I have a feeling these are merely legends, but I am interested to know > the source of these stories. Does anyone know the original source for = > these > reports? I know there are references to these statements in Thief in = > the > Night, > but where did William Sears get these stories from? > =20 > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C5E881.51583E50 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML xmlns:eXclaimer =3D "http://www.exclaimer.co.uk"; xmlns:msxsl =3D=20 > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt" xmlns:exc =3D=20 > "http://www.exclaimer.co.uk/rtf";><HEAD> > <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > <TITLE>Message</TITLE> > > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> > <BODY> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = > class=3D303503601-14112005>Some=20 > details are here:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20 > href=3D"http://studycircle.angeltowns.com/proc_victoria.htm";>http://study= > circle.angeltowns.com/proc_victoria.htm</A></FONT></DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 > style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = > solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> > <DIV></DIV> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr = > align=3Dleft><FONT=20 > face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial>Many years ago, a Baha'i told = > me that=20 > when Queen Victoria received Baha'u'llah's letter, she responded = > something=20 > like this: "If this is from God, it will endure,</DIV> > <DIV> > <DIV> > <DIV>if not, it can do no harm." Baha'is also told me = > that =20 > when Napoleon III received Baha'u'llah's letter, he responded "If this = > man is=20 > God, I am two Gods!"</DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV>I have a feeling these are merely legends, but I am interested to = > > know</DIV> > <DIV>the source of these stories. Does anyone know the original = > source=20 > for these</DIV> > <DIV>reports? I know there are references to these statements in = > Thief=20 > in the Night,</DIV> > <DIV>but where did William Sears get these stories from?</DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> __________________________________________________ <BR> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] <BR> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <BR> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] <BR> Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st <BR> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: <BR> Mail - mailto:[email protected] <BR> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st <BR> News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st <BR> Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist <BR> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] <BR> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] </BODY= > > </HTML> > > ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C5E881.51583E50-- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Queen Victoria and Napoleon > From: "Susan Maneck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:03:15 -0600 > X-Message-Number: 10 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C5E88D.48406660 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear Tim, > > My recollection is that Shoghi Effendi repeats these stories in God Passes > By, but he doesn't say where he got them from either. > > warmest, Susan > > ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C5E88D.48406660 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML xmlns:eXclaimer =3D "http://www.exclaimer.co.uk"; xmlns:msxsl =3D=20 > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt" xmlns:exc =3D=20 > "http://www.exclaimer.co.uk/rtf";><HEAD> > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> > <BODY> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D820285601-14112005><FONT = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2>Dear Tim, </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D820285601-14112005><FONT = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D820285601-14112005><FONT = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2>My recollection is that Shoghi Effendi repeats these stories in = > God=20 > Passes By, but he doesn't say where he got them from either.=20 > </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D820285601-14112005><FONT = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D820285601-14112005><FONT = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D2>warmest, Susan </FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT> __________________________________________________ <BR> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] <BR> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <BR> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] <BR> Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st <BR> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: <BR> Mail - mailto:[email protected] <BR> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st <BR> News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st <BR> Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist <BR> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] <BR> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] </BODY></HTML> > > ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C5E88D.48406660-- > > > > > --- > > END OF DIGEST > > __________________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the Digest of bahai-st as mailto:[EMAIL > PROTECTED] > > The bahai-st list is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st > News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
