The Baha'i Studies Listserv So how would you describe the relationship between the Bab and the Shaykhis?
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Ahang Rabbani <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > There's absolutely no evidence that the Bab ever claimed to be the successor > of Siyyid Kazim. > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Stephen Gray <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> The Bab was one of four people who claimed to be the successor to Sayyid >> Kāẓim bin Qāsim al-Ḥusaynī ar-Rashtī who was the successor of Shaykh Ahmad >> ibn Zayn ad-Dín ibn Ibráhím al-Ahsá'í >> Among the Shaykis left who do they consider to be his successor? >> Haji Miraza Muhammad Karim Khan Kermani >> Shafi Tabrizi >> Mirza Muhammad Haqqaq-e-Ifsahani >> >> The Bab (Mirza Ali Muhammad Shirazi) (Just to complete the list, but >> technically if they considered him to be the successor, they would be >> Baha'is, Azalis, Daheshists, etc. and not Shaykhis anymore.) >> ________________________________ >> From: Stephen Gray <[email protected]> >> To: Baha'i Studies <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 6:18:19 PM >> Subject: Re: Sects >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> They did so on the grounds that they think the Bab taught reincarnation, >> Dahesh being the "return" of the Bab means something like that to them. >> There are several references to reincarnation on their website. Dr. Dahesh's >> calims are basically only valid via the fact he believes himself to be Bab's >> reincarnation, no actual connection to Babism in any other way though. >> ________________________________ >> From: Susan Maneck <[email protected]> >> To: Baha'i Studies <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 4:47:25 PM >> Subject: Re: Sects >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> > What are arabic/persian letters like in trying to figure out >> > handwriting? I >> > have heard that The Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha is fraudulent. >> >> Dear Stephen, >> >> The person who suggested that the Will and Testament was fraudulent >> had no familiarity with either Persian or Arabic. >> >> I have >> > also heard that Some Answered Questions is also fraudulent, but from a >> > different source. The first, Free Baha'i Faith of Zimmer Hermann and >> > Ruth >> > White and Mirza Ahmad Sorhab and Frederick Glaysher (also the Caravan of >> > East and West, the New Historic Society, the Reform Baha'i Faith), and >> > the >> > second, Daheshism of Doctor Dahesh aka Salim/Saleem Musa/Moosa >> > Al-Awshi/El-Awshee. >> >> It was Ruth White who originally hired a handwriting expert to look >> over Abdu'l-Baha's Will. As I mentioned earlier the expert in question >> did not know Persian and was in no position to evaluate handwriting in >> that language, but Ruth White paid him so he took the money. The >> document which this handwriting expert looked at was not even the >> original Will, it was a facsimile. He made what he himself admitted >> was a very tentative evaluation based on this facsimile stating that >> without the original document he really couldn't be sure. I might add >> he couldn't be sure because of his unfamiliarity the script as well. >> The Will and Testament was written during three different periods of >> Abdu'l-Baha's life and reflected the variations we would expect to see >> as someone grows older. Also, there are various types of script used >> in writing Persian and the same person is more than capable of >> mastering several of them. I doubt if the person doing the handwriting >> analysis was at all aware of it. As for Ahmad Sohrab, despite his >> disobedience to Shoghi Effendi, he never challenged the authenticity, >> he never challenged the authenticity of the Will and Testament, the >> reason being that unlike Ruth White, Hermann Zimmer, Fred Glaysher or >> this handwriting expert, Ahmad Sohrab *knew* Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting >> and this was no forgery. As for Hermann Zimmer and Fred Glaysher, >> these two have merely stolen Ruth White's assertion and added nothing >> knew to the discussion. Their motives are pretty obvious. They don't >> like the Administrative Order and are willing to use any means, fare >> or foul to discredit it. >> >> I was not aware that the Daheshites were challenging the authenticity >> of the Some Answered Questions. I'm not sure on what grounds they >> could do so. As far as I know this is a movement. which has simply >> stolen a lot of Baha'i ideas. >> >> warmest, Susan >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:[email protected] >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> [email protected] >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:[email protected] >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:[email protected] >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> [email protected] >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:[email protected] >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:[email protected] >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> [email protected] >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:[email protected] >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[email protected] > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[email protected] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
