The Baha'i Studies Listserv dear Sen, many thanks for yr clarifications.But pls note as below: I think the 24 Guardians are different from the subject of 24 elders.As one familiar with the subject may understand,the Imams came after the Islam's Prophet(generation after generration).In the words of Master,in comparing the 24 Guardians with the Shia Imams, I think that Guardians shoud have come after Bahaullah,and AbdulBaha .In this way,He called Shoghi in his W&T as Guardian( wali amr ).Shoghi was assumed as the first one. The next were to come. But the 24 elders(19 of them Bab,and the Horuf-e- Hayy;and the next 5 to come in the unknown future), can by no means be compared with the Shia Imams,with their exactly defined and explained responsibilities. If one assumes that Shoghi was not one of those 24 Guardians- I do not see this a sane theory-,then we should wait for those 24 Guardians;unless there has been a bada'. Yours, Rohani --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Sen & Sonja <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Sen & Sonja <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Lesser Prophets To: "Baha'i Studies" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:55 AM The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 9 Feb 2010 at 23:26, shahram rohani wrote: > according to the words of Abdul-Baha,we were supposed to have 24 > Guardians, The reference it to a verse in Revelation: "And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God." of which Abdu'l-Baha says : In each cycle the guardians and holy souls have been twelve. ... But in this glorious manifestation there are twenty-four, double the number of all the others, for the greatness of this manifestation requires it. (Some Answered Questions, 57) The Guardian was apparently not one of these "guardians and holy souls," or if he was, he did not tell his secretary about. The secretary writes: "Regarding the four and twenty elders: The Master in a Tablet, stated that they are they Báb, the 18 Letters of the Living and five others who would be known in the future. So far we do not know who these five other are." (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, July 22, 1934: Bahai News, No. 171, November 1944, p. 2) In fact we do know the name of one other: Haji Mirza Muhammad-Taqi, the Vakilu'd-Dawlih and cousin of the Bab, a distinguished believer who was designated by 'Abdu'l-Baha as one of the 'four and twenty elders' in this verse of the Book of Revelation (see Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, 240) and was given the task of arranging for the election of the Universal House of Justice (Taherzadeh, The Covenant of Baha'u'llah, 241) should that become necessary (presumably meaning, if Abdu'l-Baha was dead or unable to lead the community). He directs Muhammad-Taqi to gather the Afnan and the Hands of the Cause and make the necessary arrangements. The fact that we do not know the names of 4 more of the elders does not mean that God has changed his plan (Bada') - it just means He has not told us all the details (yet). God often does that Sen senmcglinn.wordpress.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The influence of individual souls is and always will be beloved. For the influence of each soul is its fruit, and a soul without influence is considered a tree without fruit in the most great realm. Speak forth for the sake of God, and spread the cause for his sake. Do not look at whether others accept or deny, but rather at the service you are commanded to perform by God. Baha'u'llah -- Tablet of the Son -- http://www- personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2001/bhson.htm __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[email protected] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[email protected] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
