The Baha'i Studies Listserv @Susan: With reference to at-Tabari, you are talking about Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, the founder of the now-extinct Jariri school of jurisprudence within Sunni Islam, correct?
@Gilberto: The vast majority of Sunni Muslims, except the followers of Abdul Wahaab, have no respect for Muawiyya or Yazid. They do, however, consider Abu Sufyan to be a hero as he became blind fighting the Byzantines for the Ummah. As far as I know, the only Umayyad rulers respected by the Shi'a are Muawiyya II (because he abdicated) and Umar II (only because he halted the ritual cursing of Ali). The only Umayyad ruler Sunnis glorify (except Wahaabis) is Umar II. Many of them claim that he was the 'fifth righteously guided Caliph'. On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Gilberto Simpson <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote: >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> I've read sunni accounts which would >>> agree that Uthman engaged in a certain amount of nepotism but he was a >>> Companion so Sunnis aren't going to want to slander him. >> >> It is slander only if what I said was false, but what I described in >> regards to 'Uthman is largely taken from at-Tabari's account, hardly >> Shi'ite propaganda. >> > > And I agreed that Sunni accounts also mention nepotism. But still, > Sunnis aren't going to want to libel or back-bite a Companion either. > >> Similarly >>> with Muawiya. Sunnis would generally admit that he was wrong in >>> opposing Ali (ra) and in what came afterwards but he was a Companion >> >> How exactly is the son of Abu Sufyan and Hind the Liver-eater a >> Companion? Simply by virtue of the fact that he converted (at his >> father's urging) before Muhammad died? In what sense was he ever the >> Prophet's companion. He never lived in Medina. > > The usual definition of a Companion is someone who died as a Muslim > and met Muhammad (saaws) in person. (Although there is a range of > opinion about what kind of meeting is sufficient and there are > exceptional cases like that of Uways who never met the prophet in the > flesh but is still considered a Companion). And again, I'm not saying > the companions were perfect, but at least for Sunnis there is a > principle that being a Companion is a special station. And even the > worst companion is higher than the best of those who followed. In the > case of Muwayia, first of all, he isn't responsible for what his > parents did. Secondly, he also participated in the transmission of the > Quran so if you are going to say nasty things about him it has > implications for the integrity of the text you say you believe in. > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-533452-2252138.e4e5d946abcacf25aa28f5ab2e5fb...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-533456-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
