The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hi all,
Again, there is a speech of Mr. Hooper Dunbar, from 38'45'' onwards, where he
says:
"Secondly, the Manifestation of God has a soul, but here the differences
between the Manifestation and the rest of us becomes apparent. He says that the
Soul of the Manifestation, different from the human soul which comes into being
at the moment of conception, that is it has a beginning but it has no
end, Manifestation's soul has had no begging is eternal with the creation of
God, and the souls of the Manifestations preexist in the world before they
descending at this world and take human form. Shoghi Effendi says we don't know
the nature, we don't know what was there, activity or condition. But Their come
from the realm (...) in one Table, He says that the Soul of the Manifestation
comes from the highest realm..."
I'd very grateful if someone of you can quote or give links of that Tablet or
other writings, the article of Juan Cole, The Concept of the Manifestation of
God... don't give much light about the soul of the Manifestation, thanks.
The audio is here http://bahai-library.com/dunbar_manifestation_god
Hasan
________________________________
De: Gary Selchert <ebedeyn...@aol.com>
Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Enviado: Viernes, 24 de agosto, 2012 3:27 P.M.
Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Hasan. My understanding of SAQ chapters 30 - 40
is imperfect. And my understanding of your questions is imperfect. If your
questions can be answered in ordinary language however, I think SAQ chapters 30
- 40 and Kitab-i-Iqan part 2 is where you will find those answers.
The language 'Abdu'l-Baha uses in SAQ ch. 39 leads me to believe however that
the individual human spirit/rational soul of the Manifestation becomes a holy
reality when enveloped and illumined (at some point in His life) by the
pre-existent Divine Beauty. At that point and forever after, it seems, the holy
reality of the Manifestation's individual soul attains perfect humility and
becomes capable of reflecting Divine Reality.
Worship it seems may be and is directed to Jesus or Buddha or Baha'u'llah
according to the sometimes misinformed inclinations of the worshipper. In every
case however, the perfected humility of the Holy Manifestation serves as
conducter of that worship from mortal to Divinity, and as mediator of answering
blessings from Divine Reality to the worshipping human soul.
But all of that is my imperfect and clumsy human attempt at comprehending
heavenly matters and expressing them in worldy words. For us mere humans I
think the answers must be sought in prayer and meditation rather than in the
manipulation of metaphorical concepts beyond what the Manifestation and the
Mystery of God have given us.
Peace,
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Hasan Elías <hasanel...@yahoo.com>
To: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Sent: Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:17 am
Subject: Re: soul of Manifestations of God
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Correction: The Holy Reality of Bahá'u'lláh. Is this Reality just one? or are
there many Holy Realities?
thanks
________________________________
De: Hasan Elías <hasanel...@yahoo.com>
Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Enviado: Viernes, 24 de agosto, 2012 10:52 A.M.
Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Thanks,
So, the individuality (souls) of the Manifestations of God have a beginning?
But the "Holy Reality" (that we direct our prayers) has no individuality, right?
For example if we say "Bahá'u'lláh", is the same if we say "Jesus", because
They are not individualities. So, we worship God through the Hole Reality of
Bahá'u'lláh (which is the same as Jesus), we don't worship the soul
(individuality) of Bahá'u'lláh? Am I correct?
Thanks for answers,
H.
________________________________
De: Gary Selchert <ebedeyn...@aol.com>
Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Enviado: Jueves, 23 de agosto, 2012 2:16 A.M.
Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Specifically, 'Abdu'l-Baha says:
Then it is evident that the Manifestations possess three conditions: the
physical condition, the condition of the rational soul, and the condition of
the divine appearance and heavenly splendor. The physical condition will
certainly become decomposed, but the condition of the rational soul, though it
has a beginning, has no end: nay, it is endowed with everlasting life. But the
Holy Reality, of which Christ says, "The Father is in the Son,"[1] has neither
beginning nor end.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 153)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Calkins <don59...@gmail.com>
To: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Sent: Wed, Aug 22, 2012 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: soul of Manifestations of God
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It is the Holy Spirit that is pre-existent, I believe, not the rational soul.
Don C
On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:57 45PM, Hasan Elías wrote:
>The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>Hi all,
>
>
>I want to ask you about the soul of the Manifestation of God.
>
>
>We know that They appear in a human form [human body and soul ("rational soul"
>or "human spirit" according to SAQ)].
>
>
>My question is,if They have an human soul, how can They be pre-existent? Since
>any human soul has a beginning with the birth?
>
>
>Thanks all for answers,
>
>
>Best,
>
>
>Hasan
------------
He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not.
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