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Stephen seems to want desperately to flush us out of theunderbrush on the issue 
of all things LGBT. Clearly, the public Baha’i rulesabout gayness are at odds 
with the customs of our (western) society in much thesame way that  Baha’i 
rules concerningalcoholic beverages are at odds with the customs of our 
society. They drink; weare prohibited from drinking. We are prohibited from 
doing what gay folks do.Personally, I would way rather have a drink of 
something strong than do whatgay folks do, but that’s just me. I was born a 
heterosexual and I know that noone born with my particular preferences would 
never be inclined to choose topursue same-sex physical/romantic relationships. 
Personally, I would be leeryof encouraging a gay person or a devoted aficionado 
of microbreweries to enrollas a Baha’i, (no dang it; I am not comparing 
homosexuality to alcoholism; I am comparing it to regular social drinking!) 
regardless of their beliefs or other sterling qualities. Folks withfull 
knowledge of the rules who do enroll as Baha’is despite their 
incompatiblepreferences (how many of us can truthfully deny a predilection 
forback-biting?) have a ready-made spiritual battle to fight.
Having said all that, the history of religions is repletewith examples of the 
power of desuetude. Meditate on the laws of Deuteronomy chapters21 and 22. 
Ponder deeply the issues of Acts 4:32 – 5:13. Remember fondly Matthew19:3 – 12 
and all the fun the churches have had down through the centuries withissues of 
marriage and divorce.
Some laws are specifically abrogated; others just fall intodesuetude as they 
become unhelpful and create barriers to inclusion and thesalvation of the 
masses. Obdurate repudiation of desuetude turns greatreligions into tiny 
separatist cults.
But perhaps all of that is ancient history and irrelevant inthe New Order. 
Perhaps the law is engraved in stone until the next Manifestation. I don’t 
know. I will watch from the next world with mildcuriosity about how our 
great-great grandchildren work it all out. But I suspect nottoo many 
generations will pass before Baha’is think about homosexuality in muchthe same 
way that Catholics think about contraception.  
But who knows?

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Kent Gray <>
To: Baha'i Studies <>
Sent: Tue, Apr 16, 2013 11:15 am
Subject: Re: Against nature...

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Opps, needed to correct one of the links.

The other redirected to this one anyways.

Don, what if the influence of all secular progressivism went away, what would 
society look like?

What if America or whatever else society you want to insert instead, became 

And became a Unitarian Universalists society?
A Neo Druidist society?
A Wiccan society?
A Raëlian society?
An Eckist society?
A Liberal Hindu society?
A Liberal Mahayana Buddhist society?
A Liberal Muslim society?
A Liberal Jewish society?
A Liberal Christian society?

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 15, 2013, at 16:10, Stephen Kent Gray <> wrote:

The Baha'i Studies Listserve

Don, you seem to think its only because of secularism that everyone isn't on 
the same page you?
Read all the above Wikipedia articles on the various religious and theological 


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