David, I thought this passage referred to such things as death as
irrevocable. That is, once enacted, to bring to life again has enormous
implications. Impending might be about a whole host of social and
environmental interactions that can be changed.
The concept of existence, from a physics view of the universe, is to
look at it as if predestiny was like a garden park with a gate at two
diagonal corners. At one gate stands existence at the current moment, at
the other, existence as it will eventually be, say, this time tomorrow.
Now to get from one gate to another there are still an infinite number
of pathways within the boundaries of the garden. But any chosen step
brings a certain reality into existence while collapsing the
possibilities for the next step. Now physicists say there is no reason
apart from the effect of the observer, us, on the system, why we can't
go backward along the time continuum, therefore perhaps even leap
sideways away from the reality defined by the collapse of waves of
probability. Because it is all just information anyway and if you had
the ability to see the system from a wholistic viewpoint eg God, you may
be able to fiddle with it in any way. But for the human being,
psychological and socially, to have the 'reality' take a sideways leap,
so you no longer are born in Manhattan, but New Delhi, or backward so
you could remember dying in a car accident, so you didn't take that car
so you lived (well sci fi has dealt with time travel problems for most
of a century or more). And just bringing back to life?. On an adhoc
basis? What rule that is understandable to humans can be used?
But small negotiations of the pathway of existence may not have dramatic
effect, or may have beneficial effect. Eg the recovery of a sick person.
The thing that we can never see, is the final outcome of every choice we
make, which causes a collapse of the wave of probability, and interferes
with the waves induced by every other choice maker an even every other
information processor such as animals, plants, and the physics of the
environmental system as well.
The system our embryological souls have been associated with, for our
spiritual education, has a certain form. We call it the universe, or the
world. It is that form which makes us unaware of our creator. It is from
this form that we must find the evidence of the creator so that we can
find the education to nurture the soul. The manifestation of God is the
only true guide within the world, to an understanding about the system
and its true nature, its purpose, and our role. It therefore would be
contrary to the purpose of true spiritual education to interfere with
the pathways.
Regards
Owen
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Friedman
Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 8:28 PM
To: Baha'i Studies
Subject: Fate and predestination
Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign
Ordainer,
as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be
obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by
men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as
it
is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As
the
harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the
decree
had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in
what
God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Page: 133)
I don't understand quite what Baha'u'llah is getting at regarding
irrevocable degrees. These degrees are said to be fixed and settled.
One
would think, therefore, that God would not be able to alter or repeal
such
decrees, as that would seem to make them impending decrees, with God
(not
man this time) able to do something to change them. Perhaps
"irrevocable"
is used insofar as human ability to change things is concerned. Perhaps
it's not meaning to take the power of God into account. In saying that
God
is able to alter or repeal His irrevocable degrees, is Baha'u'llah
suggesting that He might do this, or is He just saying, without being
all
that clear, that He won't do it (though has the power?)? I wonder if
the
latter is correct, as if all should submit to irrevocable decrees, and
changing the decree (which God would do) is harmful, surely God wouldn't
do
this. He would cease to be God if He did so. Furthermore, the
indication
is that changing the decree would not be what "God hath willed," as He
would
want things how to be what He decreed originally. If God were to change
a
decree, wouldn't that mean He wasn't following His own will, or had two
wills? If it is possible for God to change an irrevocable decree I
would be
interested in knowing what the nature of the harm done would be. The
"all,
therefore, should willingly acquiesce" would seem to indicate that man
can
do something that might make God change an irrevocable decree, causing
harm.
From reading the passage over several times my impression is that
Baha'u'llah is not meaning to say that God might alter irrevocable
decrees.
Is Baha'u'llah even saying that God is able to? If He is, I'm not sure
how
the decree could be irrevocable. Who ever heard of an irrevocable
decree
that could be changed? Now there's an oxymoron.
Regards,
David
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