richard notes: "If the concern regarding the idea that the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary implies that Mary having been "from the instant of *her* conception, by a singular privilege by the omnipotent grace of God, through the application of the merit of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all the fault of original sin" is the same as "Christ found existence through the spirit of God"; then it seems to me that the Conception of Mary and the Birth of Jesus were miracles." it seems to my poor understanding that the beloved Guardian is saying the Church is correct in its understanding, but that people often aren't. he is saying that the concept that mary was born predistiened to tghe station of being Christ's mother, and therefore was protected from a doctine thsat says, because she was born ast all, she would goto hell unless something happned, didnlt apply. :"Original sin is the privation of sanctifying grace in consequence of the sin of Adam." http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm section vi gives a nice bit of reasoning on the subject. so there is nothing miraculous, by definitions commonly used in mary, full of grace, being that way from conception in the bed of her mom&dad. and she remains in this state, after completing the mission of being the mother of Isa, on thru having like at least 6 other kids, by means of methods available to all, born with or without grace. btw, whilst digging around a little for this answer, i ran into this one, to another question., which i offer to all who think for some Reason thast the best beloved thing in God's sight is justice....a nother snippet from the catholic encyclopadia: "The word justification (justificatio, from justum facere) derives its name from justice (justitia), by which is not merely meant the cardinal virtue in the sense of a contant purpose to respect the rights of others (suum cuique), nor is the term taken in the concept of all those virtues which go to make up the moral law, but connotes, especially, the whole inner relation of man to God as to his supernatural end. Every adult soul stained either with original sin or with actual mortal sin (children are of course excepted) must, in order to arrive at the state of justification, pass through a short or long process of justification, which may be likened to the gradual development of the child in its mother's womb. This development attains its fullness in the birth of the child, accompanied by the anguish and suffering with which this birth is invariably attended; our rebirth in God is likewise preceded by great spiritual sufferings of fear and contrition." "surely He wants them all, becuase He made them all." --shoghi effendi "3 a.m. in las vegas, who is hanging around; 9 a.m. in manhattan, dust swirls around." --firestorm _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com ---------- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
