Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-07-05.
2011-07-05 05:17:48+0000 <antoviaque> hi! 2011-07-05 06:26:47+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-05 07:11:04+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-07-05 08:19:08+0000 <blanchard> antoviaque: are you around ? 2011-07-05 09:09:24+0000 blanchard (blanchard) is now offline 2011-07-05 09:29:13+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-07-05 09:31:08+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2011-07-05 09:31:20+0000 <arbrandes> Morning, folks! 2011-07-05 09:31:31+0000 <antoviaque> hi arbrandes! 2011-07-05 09:31:45+0000 <tartarugafeliz> good morniiing! :D 2011-07-05 09:31:48+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, good news, I can start full time today :) 2011-07-05 09:31:54+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeeeeeey!!! :D 2011-07-05 09:31:56+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz, good morning! :) 2011-07-05 09:32:02+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: wow, cool! :D 2011-07-05 09:32:29+0000 <antoviaque> Your previous employer did let you leave that quickly? impressive, he's really nice 2011-07-05 09:33:14+0000 <arbrandes> Well, it wasn't as clean as that... It was not an easy breakup, but gladly I had already left things relatively tidy before I left on vacation, and we were on the brink of starting a whole new venture, so... 2011-07-05 09:34:04+0000 <arbrandes> Anyway, that is now the past. :) 2011-07-05 09:35:06+0000 <arbrandes> I'd like to talk about scrum, when you have a moment, antoviaque 2011-07-05 09:35:23+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: sure thing 2011-07-05 09:37:20+0000 <arbrandes> Is there any chance at all we can try out the backlogs plugin? At this point, it is for one single reason, but I think it a good one: to be able to order user stories and have them match up with tasks. 2011-07-05 09:38:15+0000 <arbrandes> If not, we'd have to do it manually. It's not the end of the world, but the added work may become a bit tiring. :) 2011-07-05 09:41:47+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: would it be possible to integrate it more gradually, and try out the plugin when we have implemented the actual human workflow? Or would it be difficult? 2011-07-05 09:42:03+0000 <antoviaque> Aside from the fact that the redmine upgrade would be painful, I'd rather try to progressively mixing things, and then look at the tool side of things 2011-07-05 09:42:13+0000 <antoviaque> but that's me :) 2011-07-05 09:43:31+0000 <antoviaque> if you insist I can have another look 2011-07-05 09:44:11+0000 <arbrandes> I understand. Ok, we can do it manually, as I said it's not the end of the world. :) 2011-07-05 09:45:30+0000 <arbrandes> In this case, I propose the wiki as a starting place for the stories. It's a simple, cheap way to be able to know what's going on. 2011-07-05 09:46:05+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: one way to not completely put this part on the side would be to put it on a server to try it out - if you manage to convince the people who use the ticket system that it would be better with that plugin, I'll do the upgrade 2011-07-05 09:47:30+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, thinking on it 2011-07-05 09:47:58+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: why not for the wiki - I'm new to a "formalized" scrum so I'm curious to see how you would implement it 2011-07-05 09:48:32+0000 <antoviaque> just out of curiosity - why not use a status of the tickets for this? 2011-07-05 09:48:44+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, ok, maybe we could have just the *stories* on a separate server, and leave the current redmine as-is, with little or no interference to the current work flow. 2011-07-05 09:49:41+0000 <antoviaque> the advantage of this would be to use "new" tickets to gather the user stories, and base on tickets entered by players and developers alike 2011-07-05 09:50:21+0000 <antoviaque> ie the "new" state is the unsorted users stories queue, the "accepted" the formalized/prioritized user stories backlog 2011-07-05 09:50:29+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, the big problem with using a just a status on vanilla redmine is the ordering of stories, which is critical to the scrum workflow. 2011-07-05 09:50:59+0000 <arbrandes> it's the whole "ordered backlog" I was talking about earlier 2011-07-05 09:51:23+0000 <arbrandes> Let's say we created a custom field 2011-07-05 09:51:35+0000 <arbrandes> But then reordering would be very painful 2011-07-05 09:51:56+0000 <arbrandes> What I like about the backlogs plugin is that reording is a simple drag-and-drop 2011-07-05 09:52:01+0000 <arbrandes> *reordering 2011-07-05 09:52:45+0000 <arbrandes> But I think having the stories on a separate server would work very well, in the sense that it would not interfere with how things work right now. 2011-07-05 09:52:48+0000 <antoviaque> sorry if this is silly question, again I'm not familiar with all the aspects of scrum - but how do you use that order? People still chose their tasks isn't it? 2011-07-05 09:53:03+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, people still chose their tasks, yes 2011-07-05 09:53:11+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, but: 2011-07-05 09:53:32+0000 <arbrandes> they chose the tasks that are more important, based on the order of the stories 2011-07-05 09:53:53+0000 <arbrandes> also, theoretically they can't chose a task if it isn't in the sprint 2011-07-05 09:54:15+0000 <arbrandes> But that is precisely one of the things I'm not sure about yet, at least to start with 2011-07-05 09:55:07+0000 <antoviaque> if my understanding is correct, you chose among a given sprint's backlog, isn't it? There should not be more than 10-15 tasks per team in a two weeks sprint, no? with a 5 degrees importance, it gives about 2-3 tasks per priority? 2011-07-05 09:57:10+0000 <arbrandes> It all depends. You can have stories that are composed of a single task, or stories that have 10 tasks. Neither the number of stories or number of tasks is fixed. 2011-07-05 09:57:17+0000 <arbrandes> (per sprint, I mean) 2011-07-05 09:57:48+0000 <arbrandes> What is important is that each task be doable by one person. 2011-07-05 09:57:58+0000 <arbrandes> The tasks themselves need not be ordered. 2011-07-05 09:58:18+0000 <antoviaque> ok, I guess I'll try to see how it plays then before trying to comment further, I don't have enough experience with it yet : ) 2011-07-05 10:00:04+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, ok. :) I'm just trying to give it a good go on the stories part, because it is the most critical: if the product manager and scrum master are not on the same page about them, the rest becomes more difficult. 2011-07-05 10:00:58+0000 <arbrandes> and since theoretically it is the product manager's job to prioritize said stories, I'm just trying to make your life easier, ehhehe ;) 2011-07-05 10:01:09+0000 <antoviaque> yup, I'll see how it goes : ) 2011-07-05 10:02:35+0000 <antoviaque> btw one thing to keep in mind (and this may be something in favor of the backlog plugin), one of the nice things with transparency is that it allows people to follow what's happening to the bug they reported or the feature they suggested through the development cycles 2011-07-05 10:03:18+0000 <arbrandes> that is a very important point 2011-07-05 10:03:20+0000 <antoviaque> with a ticket it's easy: you create the ticket, and you receive consecutives updates to that ticket (status changes, comments/questions, etc.) 2011-07-05 10:03:51+0000 <antoviaque> there is likely something similar we can have with scrum, but to keep in mind 2011-07-05 10:06:41+0000 <arbrandes> We're going to need to discuss this further, of course, but it's becoming clearer to me as we talk about it that the scrum workflow doesn't need to be so tightly integrated with all the rest. Let me explain: 2011-07-05 10:07:31+0000 <arbrandes> Scrum is, in essence, just a communication tool. 2011-07-05 10:07:45+0000 <arbrandes> It is used to communicate to developers what is more important and therefore should be done first, 2011-07-05 10:08:08+0000 <arbrandes> And it is also used to communicate to the outside world what is being done now, and what will be done tomorrow. 2011-07-05 10:08:54+0000 <arbrandes> That is where the "kanban" board comes in, with all those little pieces of paper. 2011-07-05 10:09:59+0000 <arbrandes> On the left, you have the stories, ordered from top to bottom. Each story's tasks are right next to it. Developers are encouraged to chose tasks nearer the top. 2011-07-05 10:11:39+0000 <arbrandes> It is very easy to see how the sprint is doing by looking at the board and seeing: "Hmm, 80% the tasks are done, but there is one little task near the top that is unfinished. Instead of starting a new task near the bottom, we'll focus on the task on top, even if this means not all stories will be finished." 2011-07-05 10:12:14+0000 <antoviaque> I see 2011-07-05 10:12:41+0000 <arbrandes> So, to conclude my point: if you order your stories and there is a relation with the tasks, you're doing almost everything scrum calls for. 2011-07-05 10:13:41+0000 <arbrandes> So, I see two options: 2011-07-05 10:13:54+0000 <arbrandes> 1) Stories on the wiki. 2011-07-05 10:14:01+0000 <arbrandes> 2) Stories on a separate redmine instance. 2011-07-05 10:14:27+0000 <arbrandes> Number 1 is cheaper to implement now. 2011-07-05 10:14:55+0000 <arbrandes> Number 2 is good to demonstrate the plugin, but there are disadvantages. 2011-07-05 10:15:32+0000 <arbrandes> For instance, it would require duplicating login information, and relationship with tasks would still be manual. 2011-07-05 10:16:23+0000 <antoviaque> ok - so what would make your life easier would still be to install the backlog plugin on the main redmine, right? 2011-07-05 10:17:07+0000 <antoviaque> You know what - I've said you would have the ownership on this, so I'm going to let you chose - if you think it would be better to have the redmine plugin, I'll give another shot at installing it today 2011-07-05 10:17:07+0000 <arbrandes> My honest opinion at this point: let's go with the wiki. It will become very clear to you (and to everybody else), if the process will work or not. 2011-07-05 10:17:20+0000 <antoviaque> ok then 2011-07-05 10:18:31+0000 <arbrandes> I've done this before, actually (using a wiki for stories), so I know what to expect. :) 2011-07-05 10:19:07+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-05 10:19:11+0000 <antoviaque> :) it's always good to start with a sure win ;p 2011-07-05 10:19:13+0000 <antoviaque> hi dachary! 2011-07-05 10:19:33+0000 <arbrandes> hey dachary 2011-07-05 10:19:58+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, we have a sprint coming up, right? 2011-07-05 10:20:36+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: nothing decided (up to you actually), but we talked about doing one for the board implementation, starting with the RMLL convention this week-end 2011-07-05 10:22:26+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: btw if you're starting your paid time, we need to think of how to handle the time you spend on the scrum master role 2011-07-05 10:23:55+0000 <antoviaque> it could be like the other paid tasks - creating per-subject tickets like "setup of the scrum workflow", "daily meetings organization", "board game sprint orga" 2011-07-05 10:23:56+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, ok, what I'd like to do, then, is to start with that. First, we prepare the stories for the sprint (in the wiki). Then, we create tasks on redmine (maybe they're already there), and *maybe* estimate their durations beforehand with everybody present (this is worth a discussion, too). 2011-07-05 10:24:13+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, yeah, that sounds good to me 2011-07-05 10:24:20+0000 <antoviaque> ok then 2011-07-05 10:24:38+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: what do you need from me, on the user stories/product mng side? 2011-07-05 10:28:07+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, it would be nice if you could brainstorm a few user stories related to what will be needed for RMLL and prioritize them. For this first time, actually, it would be nice if we had a brainstorming session and write a few, based on the new mockups, what do you say? 2011-07-05 10:28:38+0000 <antoviaque> sounds good to me 2011-07-05 10:28:40+0000 <arbrandes> With blanchard, dachary, tartarugafeliz present 2011-07-05 10:29:06+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I can participate too 2011-07-05 10:29:30+0000 <arbrandes> The idea is very, very simple. Write one-sentence stories that go like this: 2011-07-05 10:30:03+0000 <arbrandes> "Joanna can see that Fred already picked a card." 2011-07-05 10:30:26+0000 <arbrandes> or 2011-07-05 10:31:10+0000 <arbrandes> "When Joanna picked a card Fred was on the phone, but he received an email warning him." 2011-07-05 10:32:18+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-05 10:32:49+0000 <antoviaque> a few questions about that 2011-07-05 10:32:56+0000 <arbrandes> go ahead 2011-07-05 10:34:09+0000 <antoviaque> how do you approch this from the standpoint of a big feature like the board game? 2011-07-05 10:34:17+0000 <antoviaque> board view 2011-07-05 10:34:30+0000 <arbrandes> This is how I've done it before: 2011-07-05 10:34:42+0000 <arbrandes> First, write an "epic", which is just a really big user story 2011-07-05 10:35:18+0000 <arbrandes> Not an essay, just a couple of lines that illustrate the whole point of the board game 2011-07-05 10:35:49+0000 <arbrandes> And then split that up into smaller stories that illustrate just how exactly the users will experience it. 2011-07-05 10:35:52+0000 * antoviaque is reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_story 2011-07-05 10:36:03+0000 <arbrandes> Good idea. :) 2011-07-05 10:36:06+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-07-05 10:36:41+0000 <antoviaque> I see 2011-07-05 10:37:12+0000 <antoviaque> good idea the brainstorm, it will allow to get familiar with it :) 2011-07-05 10:37:18+0000 <arbrandes> Yes! 2011-07-05 10:37:25+0000 <arbrandes> :) 2011-07-05 10:38:05+0000 <arbrandes> Mockups + user stories are a very powerful combination 2011-07-05 10:38:12+0000 <antoviaque> sounds simple enough (and I like the fact that it is close to what a user would write, which will simplify things in regards to directing flows of feedback) 2011-07-05 10:38:32+0000 <arbrandes> Precisely 2011-07-05 10:39:12+0000 <arbrandes> No technical wording allowed :) 2011-07-05 10:39:37+0000 <arbrandes> (That is what the actual tasks are for, btw) 2011-07-05 10:40:07+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-05 10:40:49+0000 <antoviaque> so basically the user stories would be written on the wiki for now, and their order would reflect what should come first, right? 2011-07-05 10:41:20+0000 <arbrandes> Yup, that sums up what I was hoping for 2011-07-05 10:41:53+0000 <antoviaque> ok then 2011-07-05 10:41:56+0000 <arbrandes> To achieve that, we need: 2011-07-05 10:42:03+0000 <arbrandes> 1) To invite everybody to the session 2011-07-05 10:42:14+0000 <arbrandes> 2) Create a page on the wiki 2011-07-05 10:42:38+0000 <arbrandes> 3) Agree on the stories and order by the end of the session. 2011-07-05 10:43:16+0000 <antoviaque> sounds like a well defined task that would be a perfect first paid task :) 2011-07-05 10:43:45+0000 <arbrandes> Roger that! Should I create the task on redmine? 2011-07-05 10:43:51+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-07-05 10:44:10+0000 <antoviaque> I'll pass it as accepted so that you can take it on 2011-07-05 10:44:50+0000 <antoviaque> remember to put an estimate on it (include the side legs work you'll need to do) 2011-07-05 10:45:18+0000 <arbrandes> I have a question about that, btw 2011-07-05 10:45:45+0000 <arbrandes> In the contract I signed, you guys mentioned work-days instead of hours 2011-07-05 10:46:06+0000 <arbrandes> And redmine only accepts hours 2011-07-05 10:46:50+0000 <antoviaque> yep - actually at the end hours are better, since it allows to define time on a per task basis, rather than trying to define a group of tasks that fit one day 2011-07-05 10:47:58+0000 <arbrandes> So, correct me if I'm wrong, I will get paid per hour, not day? 2011-07-05 10:48:25+0000 <arbrandes> Meaning, 20 days * X hours per day on average 2011-07-05 10:48:36+0000 <antoviaque> it's the same principle, it's just based on 8 hours = 1 day 2011-07-05 10:48:49+0000 <antoviaque> it's the way of counting that differs 2011-07-05 10:48:55+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, that answers my question :) 2011-07-05 10:48:57+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-05 10:49:57+0000 <arbrandes> But it raises another one, hehehe: 2011-07-05 10:52:20+0000 <arbrandes> For instance, let's say that, for whatever reason, I work more than 8 hours a day for those 20 days. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to charge overtime *at all*, it's just a question of what you intend to use the time field for: do you actually want to know how much time was spent on a given task, or is it more important for accounting purposes to have each day really be only 8 hours? 2011-07-05 10:54:10+0000 <antoviaque> it's based on the estimate, so it's something that is pre-agreed (and can be reestimated if there is a good reason to make it last longer, of course) 2011-07-05 10:54:47+0000 <antoviaque> so because of this, if we agree on more time than 20*8, then you'll get paid more 2011-07-05 10:55:02+0000 <antoviaque> the contractual agreement is to provide you with at least that volume of work 2011-07-05 10:55:48+0000 <antoviaque> but if you manage more and it makes sense money/project wise to spend that extra paid time on it, it can be done 2011-07-05 10:56:06+0000 <antoviaque> or you can volunteer it of course :D 2011-07-05 10:56:14+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, I think I see. Looking at redmine, there is only "estimated time", no "spent time". Also, a due date. Ok, I think it's clearer, thanks. 2011-07-05 10:56:37+0000 <arbrandes> Ah, of course, I'll certainly volunteer a lot! :) 2011-07-05 10:56:51+0000 <antoviaque> usually the problem is on the other way - making sure things aren't underestimated, so that you get paid your full month 2011-07-05 10:57:59+0000 <antoviaque> don't hesitate to ask for reestimation if (when) you get in that situation, it's really ok 2011-07-05 10:58:38+0000 <arbrandes> How does the volunteering process work, exactly? Let's say that instead of reestimation, I'd like to donate the extra time. 2011-07-05 10:58:39+0000 <antoviaque> the goal is to make sure things are discussed and agreed, not to penalize you 2011-07-05 10:59:01+0000 <antoviaque> right now the volunteer time is simply not included in the ticket estimate time 2011-07-05 10:59:44+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, I think that clears it up! Thanks! :) 2011-07-05 11:00:19+0000 <antoviaque> but this should probably be changed, as it would be good to show the time volunteered - it's a nice gift when it happens and it should be praised :D 2011-07-05 11:01:08+0000 <arbrandes> That would couple really well with your "XP" idea 2011-07-05 11:01:10+0000 <arbrandes> :) 2011-07-05 11:01:12+0000 <antoviaque> there is also the matter of including this time in the business plan, like NGOs do to show their real volume of activity 2011-07-05 11:01:17+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, yep :) 2011-07-05 11:03:56+0000 <antoviaque> btw while we are in tasks & estimates, do you also want to take on a code task? 2011-07-05 11:04:24+0000 <arbrandes> Ahhh, yes, #188 is in my sights :) 2011-07-05 11:04:52+0000 <arbrandes> (which according do dachary is most important right now) 2011-07-05 11:05:02+0000 <antoviaque> ok - passed as specified to allow you to take it on too 2011-07-05 11:05:20+0000 <antoviaque> how long do you estimate for your tasks (scrum & #188) 2011-07-05 11:05:22+0000 <antoviaque> ? 2011-07-05 11:06:34+0000 <antoviaque> btw you can of course take some time to have a look at them first 2011-07-05 11:06:56+0000 <arbrandes> On the first scrum task I would not say more than 8 hours, including leg work, rounding up everybody, the meeting itself, and wrapping up. However, those 8 hours will be distributed along possibly more than one actual day. In the meantime, I intend to take on #188. 2011-07-05 11:07:21+0000 <antoviaque> sounds good to me 2011-07-05 11:07:47+0000 <arbrandes> However, I don't have an estimate on #188 yet. Will have a bite to eat (breakfast time here :), and will get on it! 2011-07-05 11:08:13+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, sounds good too :) 2011-07-05 11:08:18+0000 <antoviaque> have a good breakfast! 2011-07-05 11:08:28+0000 <arbrandes> thanks! :)) 2011-07-05 11:12:27+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-07-05 11:19:29+0000 <arbrandes> One thing while I'm eating my papaya (ahh, the wonders of working from home, heheh), I think we should try to set up a bigbluebutton server somewhere, with the daily meetings in mind. I'm toying with the idea of having a virtual kanban board in there. :) 2011-07-05 11:21:38+0000 <arbrandes> We could even do it in my home server, but I'm not sure how the bandwidth would hold up. I can give it a shot, in any case. :) 2011-07-05 11:23:43+0000 <dachary> hi arbrandes 2011-07-05 11:24:17+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I meant to ask about Matjaz, what did you decide ? 2011-07-05 11:24:19+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: why not yup - there is the issue of archivability to keep in mind, but could be something to try yup 2011-07-05 11:24:55+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: occasional contractor - he agreed, need to work out the details now, and see when/if we give him work 2011-07-05 11:25:44+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I was thinking the client side of the chat would be a good pick 2011-07-05 11:26:18+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: good idea 2011-07-05 11:26:37+0000 <antoviaque> is there a task about it already? I can ask him 2011-07-05 11:28:24+0000 <dachary> I don't think there is a task yet. 2011-07-05 11:35:03+0000 blanchard (blanchard) is now online 2011-07-05 11:35:18+0000 blanchard1 (blanchard1) is now online 2011-07-05 11:35:24+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: do you have anything to specify technically? if not I can create the task from the mockups and propose it to matjas 2011-07-05 11:39:23+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: when is he supposed to start working ? 2011-07-05 11:40:07+0000 <antoviaque> he is occasional - so only when we ask something from him 2011-07-05 11:40:10+0000 <dachary> the chat requires some groundwork on the client infrastructure 2011-07-05 11:40:16+0000 <antoviaque> but the budget doesn't allow to use this too often 2011-07-05 11:40:34+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: can we ask him to do work right now ? 2011-07-05 11:40:44+0000 <antoviaque> yup, that's what I was proposing 2011-07-05 11:40:56+0000 <antoviaque> (01:35:26 PM) antoviaque: dachary: do you have anything to specify technically? if not I can create the task from the mockups and propose it to matjas 2011-07-05 11:41:20+0000 <dachary> I meant to ask : he is going to be able to work 3 days in the next 3 days ? 2011-07-05 11:41:26+0000 <dachary> or 3 days in the next two weeks 2011-07-05 11:41:28+0000 <dachary> or ... 2011-07-05 11:41:52+0000 <dachary> the work we can prepare depends on this 2011-07-05 11:41:57+0000 <antoviaque> that I don't know yet, we only discussed whether he wanted to be an occasional contractor or not 2011-07-05 11:42:22+0000 <dachary> if you can clarify this with him I'll make sure he has something that matches his availability 2011-07-05 11:42:33+0000 <antoviaque> ok - I'll ask him to come on the chat then 2011-07-05 11:42:53+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard1: he will need to talk to you too, right? 2011-07-05 11:43:02+0000 <blanchard1> yes 2011-07-05 11:43:26+0000 <antoviaque> any preferences for the time? can he come when he want/can? 2011-07-05 11:43:56+0000 <blanchard1> you mean today ? Or this week ? 2011-07-05 11:44:49+0000 <antoviaque> well given what dachary wants, the sooner the better 2011-07-05 11:47:02+0000 <blanchard1> ok 2011-07-05 11:47:07+0000 <blanchard1> i'll manage to be there 2011-07-05 11:47:12+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I'll ask him via mail. 2011-07-05 11:47:29+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: ok 2011-07-05 11:47:46+0000 <dachary> what's his mail ? 2011-07-05 11:47:51+0000 <antoviaque> btw you can find the current thread on the ml 2011-07-05 11:48:10+0000 <antoviaque> wait let me find you the link 2011-07-05 11:50:01+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: thanks :-) 2011-07-05 11:50:29+0000 <antoviaque> http://farsides.com/pipermail/bar/2011-July/thread.html => "Web/Game developer" 2011-07-05 11:50:44+0000 <antoviaque> if you want to receive the ml: http://farsides.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bar 2011-07-05 11:51:38+0000 <antoviaque> (it's good to keep the ml in CC for discussions where we can't use the buddypress, like with external people) 2011-07-05 11:53:35+0000 <dachary> sent 2011-07-05 11:54:41+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-05 11:56:50+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: since we missed your 121 on sunday while I was away, do you have time for a coffee or beer this week? 2011-07-05 11:57:17+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: makes me think we'll need to schedule your 121s, now that you're on board :) 2011-07-05 11:57:44+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, sure, it's supposed to be every couple of weeks, right? 2011-07-05 11:57:50+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-07-05 11:58:36+0000 <antoviaque> the best is to try to find a time which is stable, to minimize the need for scheduling (otherwise, it tends to slip, like all important-but-not-urgent tasks ;p) 2011-07-05 11:59:41+0000 <arbrandes> How do Friday mornings sound? Meaning, GMT-3 mornings, hehehe 2011-07-05 11:59:50+0000 <antoviaque> hehe : ) 2011-07-05 11:59:58+0000 <antoviaque> fine with me - what time? 2011-07-05 12:00:47+0000 <arbrandes> Since it's looking like daily meetings will be held at 14:00 GMT-2, we could pre-schedule the 121s for 15:00 GMT-2. 2011-07-05 12:01:00+0000 <antoviaque> sounds good 2011-07-05 12:01:14+0000 <antoviaque> we start on this Friday? 2011-07-05 12:01:16+0000 <arbrandes> deal - when's the first one? 2011-07-05 12:01:19+0000 <arbrandes> ah, ok, this friday! :)_ 2011-07-05 12:01:43+0000 <dachary> What about I'll be at your place at 2:45 today ? 2011-07-05 12:01:46+0000 <antoviaque> perfect - booked in my agenda :) 2011-07-05 12:01:52+0000 <arbrandes> same here 2011-07-05 12:02:10+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: good for me :) 2011-07-05 12:02:34+0000 <dachary> If I'm not mistaken, I'll work tuesdays starting next week. Is this your understanding too ? 2011-07-05 12:02:45+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz told me she had an idea for the convention this morning: a poulp costume, that she would build - maybe you'll get to see that dachary :D 2011-07-05 12:02:54+0000 <dachary> ahahah 2011-07-05 12:03:03+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-07-05 12:03:26+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard1: do you confirm for dachary's day? 2011-07-05 12:03:52+0000 <dachary> I still prefer sundays but I understand that became inconvenient. 2011-07-05 12:04:26+0000 <antoviaque> yep, now most people are more available during the week, compared to when we originally thought of the weekly planning 2011-07-05 12:05:00+0000 <antoviaque> sorry for the trouble 2011-07-05 12:13:14+0000 <dachary> that's ok 2011-07-05 12:18:22+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: your place in 30 minutes is ok for the 121 ? 2011-07-05 12:18:57+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: perfect 2011-07-05 12:19:12+0000 <dachary> good 2011-07-05 13:22:35+0000 arbrandes_ (arbrandes_) is now online 2011-07-05 14:10:26+0000 <arbrandes_> antoviaque, blanchard1, tartarugafeliz, dachary: I would be honored if you replied here: http://farsides.com/activity/p/1103/ 2011-07-05 14:10:42+0000 <antoviaque> looking 2011-07-05 14:13:09+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-07-05 14:14:28+0000 Jo (Jo) is now online 2011-07-05 14:14:41+0000 <Jo> hello there ! 2011-07-05 14:15:02+0000 <arbrandes_> Hi Jo! 2011-07-05 14:15:18+0000 <Jo> how is it going? Hard-working as usual ? :) 2011-07-05 14:16:05+0000 <arbrandes> I can only answer for myself, of course, but... yes. :) 2011-07-05 14:16:21+0000 <blanchard1> hello mister Jo :) 2011-07-05 14:16:29+0000 <blanchard1> you're in Poland ? 2011-07-05 14:16:54+0000 <antoviaque> Hi Jo : ) 2011-07-05 14:17:45+0000 <Jo> nope, back in paris 2011-07-05 14:17:49+0000 <Jo> came back last friday 2011-07-05 14:18:08+0000 <Jo> currently feeling too hot in my office :p 2011-07-05 14:18:42+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-05 14:18:42+0000 <blanchard1> arbrandes: answered :) 2011-07-05 14:18:50+0000 <antoviaque> Jo: hehe :) 2011-07-05 14:18:54+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: too hot here too. 2011-07-05 14:18:55+0000 <dachary> yo 2011-07-05 14:18:57+0000 <arbrandes> thanks, blanchard1 :) 2011-07-05 14:19:09+0000 <blanchard1> Approx 500 meters from where you work, so it makes sense 2011-07-05 14:20:17+0000 <Jo> well yes heheh, not much weather difference between us 2011-07-05 14:21:17+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: have you checked the latest mockup for card stories interface ? 2011-07-05 14:21:26+0000 <Jo> i just had a sneak peak at your issue tracker (see you're on redmine now ;) ), and you have an interesting view in don't know how to activate in the issue list: you're having issues grouped by activity department. You'll have to teach me how to do that someday (my redmine isn't working like that :p ) 2011-07-05 14:21:58+0000 <Jo> David> no I didn't see them yet, i'll have a look later 2011-07-05 14:22:00+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: http://farsides.com/members/tartarugafeliz/activity/1101/ 2011-07-05 14:24:13+0000 <Jo> (Ah, actually I found how you did that with redmine, heheh) 2011-07-05 14:24:32+0000 <Jo> David> ok will have a look later today 2011-07-05 14:25:20+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: I'll be glad to know your feeling about how you think it could solve our accessibility issues 2011-07-05 14:29:33+0000 <antoviaque> Jo: btw the post cards have arrived, we'll need to give you one :) 2011-07-05 14:29:39+0000 <antoviaque> thanks again for the help on the texts! 2011-07-05 14:31:03+0000 <antoviaque> Jo: for redmine you can configure this in the custom queries (edit on top of a tasks list) => group results by: category 2011-07-05 14:32:08+0000 <Jo> yes i found that out by comparing your redmine & mine :) nice little trick that I didn't know about 2011-07-05 14:32:41+0000 <Jo> btw if you want I could share some redmine project organization with you someday 2011-07-05 14:33:04+0000 <Jo> (we run all our projects in redmine here too) 2011-07-05 14:33:13+0000 <antoviaque> would be nice - what do you have in mind? 2011-07-05 14:33:43+0000 <Jo> more trackers, splitting features & tasks into two trackers 2011-07-05 14:33:53+0000 <Jo> features = act as your feature list/product backlog 2011-07-05 14:34:02+0000 <Jo> tasks = the sum of all the tasks of your sprint backlogs 2011-07-05 14:34:30+0000 <arbrandes> oooo, I like that :P 2011-07-05 14:34:35+0000 <Jo> it helps a lot structuring the project features list early on, then refining it in sub-tasks as you go 2011-07-05 14:35:12+0000 * arbrandes has taken an instant liking to Jo's point of views 2011-07-05 14:35:24+0000 <Jo> and it turns the tab "roadmap" in a sort of release plan (you'll see all your target versions/sprints, and all the features planned for them, at a quick glance) 2011-07-05 14:35:46+0000 <Jo> *flattered* 2011-07-05 14:36:50+0000 <Jo> ho yes, for that you use target versions to define sprints 2011-07-05 14:37:12+0000 <antoviaque> Jo: good idea, I like it too - good advantage to keep everything in one place 2011-07-05 14:37:29+0000 <Jo> then you have plugins to display a burndown chart, and here you go: a complete tool to run a scrum :) 2011-07-05 14:37:33+0000 <arbrandes> that is precisely what the backlogs plugin does, by the way, heheheh 2011-07-05 14:37:50+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ahaha, I knew you would say something like that ;p 2011-07-05 14:38:00+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, lol ;) 2011-07-05 14:38:11+0000 <Jo> yep :) but i never tried it, i built our redmine bricks by bricks 2011-07-05 14:38:32+0000 <Jo> we started with no plugins, no nothing, and then added what we needed after testing it through pilote projects 2011-07-05 14:39:20+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, a critical question: how do you prioritize the backlog on vanilla redmine? 2011-07-05 14:39:30+0000 <antoviaque> what I like too is the fact that it doesn't require me to upgrade redmine just yet ;p 2011-07-05 14:39:33+0000 * blanchard1 likes Jo's approach 2011-07-05 14:40:27+0000 <Jo> arbandes: two solutions, either use the "priority" field + assign features to sprints (and of course, priorities go into the first sprints) 2011-07-05 14:40:45+0000 <Jo> or just "priority", but it's a bit more messy 2011-07-05 14:41:34+0000 <Jo> ho, and create a target version (sprint) named "features list/icebox" which will be were you assign all the features not planned yet for a sprint 2011-07-05 14:42:05+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, but then you do get a bit of overlap, right? Even if only prioritizing features for one sprint. 2011-07-05 14:42:23+0000 <Jo> it overlaps but it's useful 2011-07-05 14:42:56+0000 <Jo> for example the producer/product owner can prioritize himself the features according to "priority" field, then then assignation to sprints is defined with the rest of the team (and the team will pick highest prio first of course) 2011-07-05 14:43:49+0000 <arbrandes> There will be a bunch of Prio 1, a bunch of Prio 2, and so on, is that it? 2011-07-05 14:43:56+0000 <Jo> yes 2011-07-05 14:44:17+0000 <Jo> youre core features will be all high prio, your "icing on the cake" features low prio 2011-07-05 14:44:26+0000 <Jo> (woa sorry, typing mistakes) 2011-07-05 14:44:26+0000 <arbrandes> And then you prioritize *in* the sprint, is that right? 2011-07-05 14:44:29+0000 <arbrandes> np 2011-07-05 14:44:45+0000 <Jo> yes, but prio during sprint is done through the tasks 2011-07-05 14:45:00+0000 <Jo> which are all children of the features assigned to this sprint 2011-07-05 14:46:41+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, let me run through it, correct me when I'm wrong: 2011-07-05 14:46:59+0000 <arbrandes> 1) New "features" tracker with all the backlog 2011-07-05 14:47:16+0000 <arbrandes> 2) prioritize the tickets in this tracker with just the priority field 2011-07-05 14:47:47+0000 <arbrandes> 3) assign a few of these features to a version, say, "sprint 1" 2011-07-05 14:48:23+0000 <arbrandes> 4) break these features down into tasks on another tracker, say "tasks", also assigning them to version "sprint 1" 2011-07-05 14:48:42+0000 <arbrandes> 5) prioritize these tasks using the priority field. 2011-07-05 14:48:47+0000 <arbrandes> Does that sound about right? 2011-07-05 14:53:12+0000 <arbrandes> I'm still a bit wary of priority overlap, but we could well give this a shot. 2011-07-05 15:10:48+0000 <Jo> that's it yes! Except 5) you prioritizes tasks by using start date/due date 2011-07-05 15:11:01+0000 <Jo> prioritize* 2011-07-05 15:11:12+0000 <Jo> it's clearer for the team members 2011-07-05 15:11:59+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, ahhhh, I see, that really does sound better (regarding 5, I mean) 2011-07-05 15:12:20+0000 <arbrandes> It's not very canonical scrum, but it should work fine. 2011-07-05 15:12:45+0000 <arbrandes> Do you also pre-assign all the tasks for the sprint? 2011-07-05 15:13:03+0000 <blanchard1> arbrandes: cool :) there is also your point about duration about which i'm wondering : we use duration of tasks for payment. If we want to also measure the rythm of the team, should we use duration field on the features/user stories 2011-07-05 15:13:25+0000 <blanchard1> but would be separate 2011-07-05 15:14:20+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, good point, we could use the time/duration/banana field on the stories tracker 2011-07-05 15:14:51+0000 <arbrandes> I like story points (i.e., "bananas"), because then there is no duplicate information. 2011-07-05 15:15:31+0000 <blanchard1> banana for features, i'm in 2011-07-05 15:16:49+0000 <Jo> <arbrandes> It's not very canonical scrum, but it should work fine. <= what differences do you see? The team prioritizes its tasks itself (or you can do it yourself if you want to force prio) 2011-07-05 15:17:23+0000 <Jo> <arbrandes> Do you also pre-assign all the tasks for the sprint? <= you mean creating them yourself + assigning them to team members (not letting them choose) ? You can 2011-07-05 15:18:07+0000 <Jo> of course it's indeed not a canonical scrum in that case, but it works a bit better from remote teams working from multiple locations (you don't let them choose, you organize it for them) 2011-07-05 15:18:11+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, the difference is subtle but probably not very important: from what I learned of Scrum, you shouldn't pre-schedule tasks in a sprint (which is what a due date implies), but instead let the team sort it out itself. 2011-07-05 15:18:39+0000 <arbrandes> However, you're probably right, for distributed, remote teams, this will work better. 2011-07-05 15:19:27+0000 <Jo> David> you want to do a difficulty point scoring of features ? (talking about your "bananas" field) 2011-07-05 15:19:34+0000 <arbrandes> Also, I found that in practice, during sprint planning meetings the team-members would often assign themselves tasks in advance anyway. :) 2011-07-05 15:19:49+0000 <Jo> arbrandes > exactly ;) 2011-07-05 15:20:18+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, I think that's what he means by bananas, yes :) 2011-07-05 15:20:59+0000 <Jo> ok then be careful: the "estimated time" field of tasks which are subtasks of a feature are all aggregated automatically in the feature "estimated time" field, that you cannot edit 2011-07-05 15:21:09+0000 <Jo> so for your "banana" field, you need a custom extra field 2011-07-05 15:21:38+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, I wasn't aware of that automatic aggregation. That is a very useful feature 2011-07-05 15:21:55+0000 <Jo> because if your feature1 has sub-task1 = 3h, sub-task2 = 3h, then feature1 = 6h 2011-07-05 15:22:28+0000 <Jo> same for due date/start date: it will pick the earliest task start date, and the latest task due date 2011-07-05 15:22:31+0000 <arbrandes> I still think the banana field is interesting, though, because sometimes you just want to have a rough estimate, instead of actually defining tasks and durations. 2011-07-05 15:22:40+0000 <Jo> thus giving you a good idea of when the whole thing starts/ends 2011-07-05 15:23:35+0000 <Jo> arbrdandes > yup, it is useful if you can add it 2011-07-05 15:24:27+0000 <arbrandes> About the aggregation, is this something defined in Redmine project settings? Is there a specific ticket relationship we should be using? 2011-07-05 15:29:49+0000 <Jo> yes 2011-07-05 15:30:19+0000 <Jo> make issues created in tracker "task" always children of parent issues created in tracker "feature" 2011-07-05 15:30:29+0000 <Jo> for that you simply put the issue number in the field "parent issue" 2011-07-05 15:30:45+0000 <Jo> *parent task 2011-07-05 15:30:56+0000 <arbrandes> I see, redmine automatically aggregates time estimates on child issues. Cool. 2011-07-05 15:31:00+0000 <arbrandes> Hey, I'm convinced 2011-07-05 15:31:05+0000 <arbrandes> thanks a lot for the info, Jo 2011-07-05 15:31:15+0000 <Jo> or when in a feature issue, use "add" in subtask section, it will auto-fill the "parent task" field 2011-07-05 15:31:18+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, what do you think? 2011-07-05 15:31:33+0000 <Jo> you're welcome :) 2011-07-05 15:31:59+0000 <antoviaque> reading 2011-07-05 15:33:58+0000 <antoviaque> gloablly I agree with what has been discussed 2011-07-05 15:34:48+0000 <antoviaque> there is just one item that I don't like very much: the idea of abandoning the liberty to chose tasks and setting deadlines for other people 2011-07-05 15:34:48+0000 <arbrandes> Instead of using the wiki, we'd create the stories on a second tracker in redmine. 2011-07-05 15:34:57+0000 <antoviaque> yup, that part is really ok with me 2011-07-05 15:35:33+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, actually, the deadlines would be set by themselves 2011-07-05 15:35:37+0000 <antoviaque> this gets us closer to a top down approach, which is a bit the opposite 2011-07-05 15:35:52+0000 <arbrandes> the only difference is that they would set the deadlines in the sprint meeting, beforehand. 2011-07-05 15:36:03+0000 <arbrandes> (at least that is how I interpreted it) 2011-07-05 15:37:53+0000 <antoviaque> ah it's true, it would be different for stories and actual tasks 2011-07-05 15:38:50+0000 <antoviaque> then it's worth a shot, yep, to see how it goes concretely 2011-07-05 15:38:58+0000 <Jo> yes, producer/product owner is in charge of setting prio/deadline of features, he has ownership on them, but not on tasks 2011-07-05 15:39:17+0000 <Jo> tasks prio/assignation/deadlines, the ownership (ideally) should belong to team members and be set by them 2011-07-05 15:39:24+0000 <blanchard1> arbrandes: i'm a bit lost on something. We would keep duration for tasks and use deadlines for stories (bananas) ? 2011-07-05 15:39:36+0000 <antoviaque> I'll probably have more comments after the first sprint imho - some parts are still too abstract for me to weight their impact 2011-07-05 15:39:54+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, stories don't have deadlines, as I see it 2011-07-05 15:40:01+0000 <antoviaque> but from what I understand, I liked it :) 2011-07-05 15:40:01+0000 <blanchard1> ok 2011-07-05 15:40:02+0000 <Jo> invite me for a bear and i'll tell you everything i know :p 2011-07-05 15:40:14+0000 <Jo> beer* (urrrgh, hot, tired-brain) 2011-07-05 15:40:18+0000 <blanchard1> a teddy bear Jo ? 2011-07-05 15:40:22+0000 <antoviaque> deal :) 2011-07-05 15:40:23+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, they are just "out there", ideally prioritized, but with no deadline attached. 2011-07-05 15:40:27+0000 <Jo> yes give me a new teddy :p 2011-07-05 15:40:29+0000 <blanchard1> ok arbrandes 2011-07-05 15:40:47+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, they get a deadline upon being chosen for a sprint, after which tasks are created and time-boxed. 2011-07-05 15:40:55+0000 <Jo> arbrandes > yes stories deadlines are just "to be done in this sprint" 2011-07-05 15:41:05+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, you may be thinking, then, "what are bananas for?" 2011-07-05 15:41:13+0000 <blanchard1> no i got it :) 2011-07-05 15:41:23+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, roger that. :) 2011-07-05 15:41:24+0000 <blanchard1> it's about tasks that I'm unclear now 2011-07-05 15:41:25+0000 <Jo> you have 3 different elements 2011-07-05 15:41:43+0000 <blanchard1> we still use duration pre-agreed for payment matter right ? 2011-07-05 15:41:54+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, yes 2011-07-05 15:41:57+0000 <blanchard1> ok 2011-07-05 15:42:02+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, the difference would be the following: 2011-07-05 15:42:06+0000 <Jo> tasks durations (estimated time), tasks deadlines (due date), and features/stories difficulty points fo velocity calculation (bananas) 2011-07-05 15:42:19+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, instead of estimating before each task, the estimation would be for many tasks before each sprint. 2011-07-05 15:42:56+0000 <blanchard1> like for instance poker planning during the pre-sprint meeting right ? 2011-07-05 15:42:57+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, yes, that's exactly how I see it, too 2011-07-05 15:43:07+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, yes 2011-07-05 15:43:32+0000 <blanchard1> ok, all clear. So it's just the use of deadline that confused me 2011-07-05 15:43:34+0000 <arbrandes> except that poker planning is good for bananas, I'm not sure about for actual time. 2011-07-05 15:44:03+0000 <blanchard1> deadline (due date) 2011-07-05 15:44:08+0000 <arbrandes> roger that 2011-07-05 15:44:26+0000 <Jo> arbrandes > exactly! You got it like it's already your own ;) 2011-07-05 15:45:33+0000 <Jo> and yes poker planning is for bananas, which is more for release planning than sprint planning. During sprint planning you estimate the duration for all the tasks to do for the features you chose, then compare the total to the total amount of working hours you have available in your sprint 2011-07-05 15:45:38+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, as a matter of fact, poker planning can be an element of the user story planning session. 2011-07-05 15:46:12+0000 <arbrandes> Yup, what Jo said ^ 2011-07-05 15:46:32+0000 <blanchard1> ok :) thx guys for the clarification 2011-07-05 15:46:39+0000 <Jo> :) 2011-07-05 15:49:23+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, out of curiosity, have you worked using scrum with a remote/distributed team before? 2011-07-05 15:49:59+0000 <arbrandes> Cause I've only used it for local teams, and therefore unsure about the remote implications 2011-07-05 15:59:39+0000 <Jo> well yes 2011-07-05 15:59:49+0000 <Jo> in my company we almost exclusively work with remote teams 2011-07-05 16:00:10+0000 <Jo> we have a subsidiary in poland, another in vietnam, some team members working from home... 2011-07-05 16:00:24+0000 <arbrandes> cool, so the setup we just discussed has been proven remotely? awesome 2011-07-05 16:00:31+0000 <Jo> but it turns out it's a true-to-the-core scrum 2011-07-05 16:00:38+0000 <Jo> it's NOT* 2011-07-05 16:00:53+0000 <arbrandes> yup, I see the differences 2011-07-05 16:00:53+0000 <Jo> yes it has proven to be working :) but some adjustments are needed 2011-07-05 16:00:58+0000 <antoviaque> would be surprised if it ever was ;p 2011-07-05 16:01:21+0000 <Jo> well, core scrum has people in the same room ... so yeah :p 2011-07-05 16:01:21+0000 <arbrandes> hey, if it works, it works, right? :) 2011-07-05 16:01:28+0000 <antoviaque> exactly :) 2011-07-05 16:01:32+0000 <Jo> indeed :) 2011-07-05 16:02:21+0000 <arbrandes> Very valuable input, and just in time, too. Were you by any chance invited to discuss this here? (just kidding, btw, lol) 2011-07-05 16:02:45+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: always has the perfect timing 2011-07-05 16:02:59+0000 <arbrandes> So it seems!! :) 2011-07-05 16:03:10+0000 <Jo> "l'homme qui tombe à pic" ? 2011-07-05 16:03:30+0000 <blanchard1> hehe. I'm not sure how to translate this :) 2011-07-05 16:03:38+0000 <Jo> actually yes, i briefly mentionned it to david the last time we had a beer ;) 2011-07-05 16:04:10+0000 <antoviaque> yup, the last two times you came, you really helped a lot :) 2011-07-05 16:04:14+0000 <arbrandes> google translate says "The man whose time has come". Probably very wrong, lol 2011-07-05 16:04:15+0000 <antoviaque> you have to come more often Jo ;p 2011-07-05 16:04:22+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahah 2011-07-05 16:04:32+0000 <Jo> heh, yeah :p if time allows 2011-07-05 16:04:39+0000 <blanchard1> Jo: your time has come ! 2011-07-05 16:04:48+0000 <Jo> noooooo :s 2011-07-05 16:05:13+0000 <arbrandes> rofl 2011-07-05 16:05:19+0000 <Jo> well depends ... my time for what ? cookies ? beer ? playing games ? then yes :) 2011-07-05 16:05:44+0000 <antoviaque> I vote beet 2011-07-05 16:05:46+0000 <antoviaque> beer 2011-07-05 16:06:03+0000 <blanchard1> i have a very nice teddy bear that my nephew does not want anymore Jo 2011-07-05 16:06:05+0000 <arbrandes> Hmmm, beer.... a bit early in GMT-3 for that, though, heheheh 2011-07-05 16:06:12+0000 <blanchard1> but beer would be cool too 2011-07-05 16:06:46+0000 <blanchard1> arbrandes: you can't have the beach AND the beer ! Errr actually you can, dam 2011-07-05 16:06:47+0000 <Jo> i'll pass on the teddy, and stick to the liquor ~ 2011-07-05 16:07:10+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard1, lol, sorry, hahahha 2011-07-05 16:07:21+0000 <blanchard1> :) 2011-07-05 16:17:22+0000 <Jo> arbrandes, where are you from ? 2011-07-05 16:17:29+0000 <arbrandes> Jo, Brazil 2011-07-05 16:17:32+0000 <Jo> or, where are you ? 2011-07-05 16:17:37+0000 <Jo> hooo, i see ! 2011-07-05 16:17:43+0000 <arbrandes> Rio de Janeiro, specifically (which is where I am now) 2011-07-05 16:17:55+0000 <Jo> hooo nice nice 2011-07-05 16:18:10+0000 <arbrandes> Much nicer now that I'm working for Farsides, hehehe 2011-07-05 16:18:55+0000 <arbrandes> I take it you're from Paris, too? 2011-07-05 16:20:56+0000 <Jo> yep! 2011-07-05 16:21:18+0000 <Jo> working in another videogame company, which is, as david said, around 500m far from farsides current office heheh 2011-07-05 16:21:41+0000 <arbrandes> Hahaha, you're practically neighbors, then! 2011-07-05 16:22:12+0000 <Jo> we are :) it's an interesting coincidence 2011-07-05 17:05:20+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-07-05 17:12:20+0000 blanchard1 (blanchard1) is now offline 2011-07-05 17:31:35+0000 <Jo> quick feedback on the new mockups (i'll try to come back tomorrow to develop a bit more): much better, i like the table layout, make things clearer on how the game is played/cards are dealed to players 2011-07-05 17:32:59+0000 <Jo> things are still a bit unclear around step 4 i think (maybe tutorial/info bubble texts to refine) 2011-07-05 17:34:12+0000 <Jo> step 5 & 6 maybe not clear enough as well 2011-07-05 17:34:42+0000 <Jo> for example i don't understand https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/7.png this mockup, it says "you confused some but not all players", but looking at other players cards, none of them picked mine 2011-07-05 17:35:46+0000 <Jo> or maybe i forgot the core rules :p 2011-07-05 17:37:26+0000 <Jo> going off, will try to come back tomorrow so you can refresh my memory of the gameplay & rules. Cheers! 2011-07-05 18:19:31+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-05 18:19:37+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-05 18:46:50+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: any luck estimating #188? :D 2011-07-05 18:47:08+0000 <arbrandes> Doing that right now! 2011-07-05 18:47:18+0000 * antoviaque trying to not forget the game in the middle of all this scrum :p 2011-07-05 18:47:22+0000 <antoviaque> cool! :) 2011-07-05 18:47:29+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, lol, yeah :) 2011-07-05 18:47:33+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-07-05 19:02:48+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, regarding #188, do you think it would be acceptable to set a cookie informing the javascript client to behave in the "django way", if set? 2011-07-05 19:04:25+0000 <arbrandes> By "django way", I mean redirecting the user to a different URL if not logged in, instead of rendering the email skin. 2011-07-05 19:13:35+0000 <arbrandes> There is another related issue, which is how to avoid duplicating HTML across the django-served cardstories and the standalone one. As it stands in the master branch, there's static/index.html and website/templates/cardstories/cardstories.html, which do the exact same thing. 2011-07-05 19:45:44+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: that would be an acceptable option, yes. 2011-07-05 19:45:52+0000 <arbrandes> cool 2011-07-05 19:45:55+0000 * dachary in an agreeable mood :-) 2011-07-05 19:46:02+0000 <arbrandes> (good to know, hehehehe) 2011-07-05 19:52:01+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, estimated at 4 hours. This includes some time I already spent. :) I think it will be up for review by later on today. 2011-07-05 19:52:33+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: Perfect - thanks for the estimate! 2011-07-05 19:52:41+0000 <antoviaque> I'll let you put it on the ticket :) 2011-07-05 19:52:45+0000 <arbrandes> done! 2011-07-05 19:53:54+0000 <arbrandes> dachary-sama, interested in some user story brainstorming tomorrow at 14:00? http://farsides.com/activity/p/1103/ 2011-07-05 19:54:01+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: btw, I'll put it on the buddypress later, but there is another good news this week - David and I have proposed to tartarugafeliz and dachary to become founders too 2011-07-05 19:54:05+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2011-07-05 19:54:36+0000 <arbrandes> Awesome! Congrats to both of you, dachary and tartarugafeliz! 2011-07-05 19:54:59+0000 <antoviaque> it's actually almost overdue, they have been key to the project and contributing a lot aside from apid tasks for a long time, it was more than time to regularize the situation :) 2011-07-05 19:55:22+0000 <antoviaque> yep, congratz to you two, dachary & tartarugafeliz :) 2011-07-05 19:56:06+0000 <arbrandes> To be honest, from the little interaction I've had so far, I already felt like it was the case, so... congrats to Farsides too, for making it true, hehehe 2011-07-05 20:01:46+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: I'm afraid I'll be in court tomorrow at 2pm, defending myself ;-) 2011-07-05 20:03:10+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, oh, ok, good luck then, those things usually suck! 2011-07-05 20:03:19+0000 <arbrandes> How about the next day, same time? 2011-07-05 20:03:51+0000 <arbrandes> It could be a completely different time, too 2011-07-05 20:13:01+0000 <dachary> The next day I'll be busy with a client. I'm afraid this time of the year is very busy. I'm moving to Berlin in two weeks and accepting a new short term contract at the same time. I spent the past hour trying to figure out how to fit all of it in the days that are left ;-) 2011-07-05 20:13:53+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, do you mind if we do this first one without you, then? 2011-07-05 20:14:43+0000 <arbrandes> (I'd much rather have your input, of course) 2011-07-05 20:17:24+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: I don't mind at all. I would happily read the report. 2011-07-05 20:18:17+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, ok then, thanks. Good luck moving to Berlin too, btw. They say it's a great city! 2011-07-05 20:19:20+0000 <dachary> :-D 2011-07-05 21:44:08+0000 blanchard (blanchard) is now online 2011-07-05 22:08:45+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online
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