Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-07-07.
2011-07-07 07:37:23+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-07 08:27:01+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2011-07-07 09:20:16+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, NEXT! 2011-07-07 09:20:17+0000 <arbrandes> :) 2011-07-07 09:20:23+0000 <arbrandes> What's in the pipeline? 2011-07-07 09:20:29+0000 <antoviaque> hi arbrandes :) 2011-07-07 09:20:33+0000 <arbrandes> (morning, by the way, hehehe) 2011-07-07 09:20:37+0000 <antoviaque> heheh 2011-07-07 09:20:47+0000 <antoviaque> next ticket you mean? let me see 2011-07-07 09:21:02+0000 <arbrandes> yup 2011-07-07 09:21:38+0000 <antoviaque> I would have liked to have dachary's answer about the board, that's the most urgent - but I'm not sure what would make sense 2011-07-07 09:21:54+0000 <antoviaque> but I'll find something good :) 2011-07-07 09:22:03+0000 <arbrandes> No problem, we could wait for him to come online 2011-07-07 09:22:50+0000 <antoviaque> not sure if he will be around much, he said he would be busy 2011-07-07 09:23:04+0000 <arbrandes> Yeah, there's that 2011-07-07 09:23:23+0000 <antoviaque> on the django side the natural next step feature wise would be http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/149 imho 2011-07-07 09:23:37+0000 <antoviaque> but let me see if I can find something more directly useful for the convention 2011-07-07 09:24:15+0000 <antoviaque> for the board, there is this annoying bug: http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/192 2011-07-07 09:24:36+0000 <arbrandes> Agreed on #149, if we're going django, although dachary would probably prefer #189 or #190, hehehe 2011-07-07 09:24:41+0000 <antoviaque> but since dachary didn't had a look at it yet there is a chance that it would not fit 2011-07-07 09:24:42+0000 <arbrandes> Let me look at #192 2011-07-07 09:25:53+0000 <antoviaque> yup, agreed, dachary would probably prefer #189 & #190 :) 2011-07-07 09:26:37+0000 <antoviaque> it makes sense to take care of this immediately, otherwise it will become more difficult 2011-07-07 09:27:38+0000 <arbrandes> Just a heads up on #189, it will probably not be as quick/easy as the last 2 ones I did 2011-07-07 09:27:39+0000 <antoviaque> but I think we didn't set the priorities well for the convention, it would have been better to get the board better - we'll a bit miss the chance to playtest the accessibility improvements it's supposed to bring 2011-07-07 09:28:11+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 09:28:14+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, agreed on that 2011-07-07 09:28:26+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, it's your call, I would gladly take on any of these bugs 2011-07-07 09:30:54+0000 <antoviaque> I don't want to ask you something that could end up conflicting or duplicating dachary's work, so I think the tasks on this front will need to wait until we can talk to him 2011-07-07 09:31:15+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-07-07 09:31:18+0000 <antoviaque> I'll send him an email, to see if this can be sooner rather than later 2011-07-07 09:32:01+0000 <antoviaque> in the meantime, probably safer to work on #189 or #190 - maybe the smallest of the two, in case you get to take on board tasks afterwards? 2011-07-07 09:32:34+0000 <arbrandes> #190 is definitely smaller 2011-07-07 09:33:00+0000 <antoviaque> is it ok for you? 2011-07-07 09:33:12+0000 <arbrandes> 8 hours, I'm guessing, let me investigate a bit more 2011-07-07 09:33:26+0000 <arbrandes> Sure, it's ok! 2011-07-07 09:33:34+0000 <antoviaque> ok :) 2011-07-07 09:33:41+0000 <antoviaque> thanks Adolfo 2011-07-07 09:34:01+0000 <antoviaque> Hopefully this kind of things won't happen anymore with scrum :D 2011-07-07 09:34:03+0000 <arbrandes> np, man 2011-07-07 09:34:12+0000 <arbrandes> Ah, glad you brought that up, hehehe 2011-07-07 09:34:35+0000 <arbrandes> If/when you decide to write some stories, I'd like to help out on donated time 2011-07-07 09:35:19+0000 <antoviaque> Oh, thanks :) I'll be glad to have some help on that, especially since it's my first time :) 2011-07-07 09:35:38+0000 <antoviaque> I'll be doing it today - most likely after lunch 2011-07-07 09:35:40+0000 <arbrandes> But it's important we do it together at first, so I learn what is going on in the mockups, and we can make sure the stories are good. :) 2011-07-07 09:35:49+0000 <antoviaque> yup, agreed 2011-07-07 09:36:30+0000 <arbrandes> Ok then, holler later on when you want to start. I'll begin trying to estimate #190 2011-07-07 09:36:36+0000 <antoviaque> We can set a time if you want - what would work for you? 2pm GMT+2? 2011-07-07 09:36:54+0000 <arbrandes> 2pm GMT+2 is fine 2011-07-07 09:37:00+0000 <antoviaque> alright :) 2011-07-07 09:37:00+0000 <arbrandes> 9am here 2011-07-07 09:37:05+0000 <arbrandes> deal 2011-07-07 09:37:53+0000 <antoviaque> thanks :) 2011-07-07 09:38:54+0000 <arbrandes> np :) I think this is going to become a pattern: I donate my time on scrum, get paid for code. This will sort of work as an incentive not to spend TOO much time on overhead, hehehe... 2011-07-07 09:39:17+0000 <antoviaque> ahah, good way to control it yep :) 2011-07-07 09:39:28+0000 <antoviaque> and many thanks for the offer, really appreciated 2011-07-07 09:40:02+0000 <arbrandes> It also gives it a good chance to work, too, because... well, I'd like to see scrum work here, hehehe 2011-07-07 09:40:08+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, np, my pleasure :) 2011-07-07 09:52:47+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-07 10:10:24+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-07-07 11:11:25+0000 mati (mati) is now online 2011-07-07 11:11:53+0000 <mati> xav 2011-07-07 11:11:56+0000 <mati> hello 2011-07-07 11:20:53+0000 mati_ (mati_) is now online 2011-07-07 11:21:43+0000 <mati_> hmm.. hello... 2011-07-07 11:21:57+0000 <mati_> hello hello hello 2011-07-07 11:22:05+0000 <mati_> grmpff 2011-07-07 11:25:31+0000 <arbrandes> lol, mati_, try saying his irc nickname, he'll probably hear you better :) 2011-07-07 11:36:59+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I'll need to discuss #190 with dachary, I'm not sure what he intended 2011-07-07 11:37:35+0000 <arbrandes> That leaves #189, which I understand but will take longer, and #149, which I also understand but will probably also take long. :) 2011-07-07 11:47:57+0000 <antoviaque> mati_: hello :) 2011-07-07 11:48:15+0000 <antoviaque> hmm 2011-07-07 11:49:19+0000 <antoviaque> how long do you estimate for #189? 2011-07-07 11:49:22+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ^ 2011-07-07 11:59:29+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I say about 16 hours, but I would certainly ask for a revision at the end of the day after I had more information (at this point, I can't even tell if it's going to be technically feasible). 2011-07-07 11:59:29+0000 <antoviaque> and whenever you're ready for the stories : ) 2011-07-07 11:59:57+0000 <antoviaque> hmmm 2011-07-07 12:00:52+0000 <antoviaque> this would block you from working at all on the board game this week 2011-07-07 12:01:31+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, probably, yes, unless I just started it and interrupted it once dachary becomes available. 2011-07-07 12:01:52+0000 <antoviaque> yup - that's not ideal for you though 2011-07-07 12:02:25+0000 <antoviaque> well, it has to be done so... let's go for #189 if it's fine with you, and then when dachary pops we rediscuss : ) 2011-07-07 12:02:29+0000 <arbrandes> It never is, but I don't mind it all that much, if it happens once in a while 2011-07-07 12:02:38+0000 <arbrandes> roger that 2011-07-07 12:02:44+0000 <antoviaque> thanks : ) 2011-07-07 12:02:52+0000 <arbrandes> np! :) 2011-07-07 12:03:05+0000 <arbrandes> If you want, we can do some stories now 2011-07-07 12:03:07+0000 <antoviaque> I'm also getting started with the stories in about 5 minutes 2011-07-07 12:03:09+0000 <antoviaque> yup : ) 2011-07-07 12:03:11+0000 <arbrandes> ok 2011-07-07 12:07:46+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ok, getting started with the user stories 2011-07-07 12:08:03+0000 <antoviaque> I'm having a look at the way you entered it, it's good 2011-07-07 12:08:52+0000 <antoviaque> good idea the links to the repository for the images, it's better than attaching 2011-07-07 12:09:09+0000 <antoviaque> (as long as tartarugafeliz doesn't change the names & paths :D ) 2011-07-07 12:09:11+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I fooled around with embedding the images, but they are too large and it was messy :) 2011-07-07 12:09:24+0000 <antoviaque> I imagine yep 2011-07-07 12:09:47+0000 <antoviaque> ok, so let me try the next one 2011-07-07 12:09:53+0000 * antoviaque grabs the mockups 2011-07-07 12:10:00+0000 <arbrandes> let me open them, too 2011-07-07 12:11:03+0000 <arbrandes> One thing that Jo brought up yesterday while you were gone: it is good to keep the story title short, and if needed, describe it more in the description. 2011-07-07 12:12:01+0000 <arbrandes> It is also a good idea to prefix the story with a theme of some sort, because once you have a lot of them, it becomes easier to know what they're about at a glance. For these ones, I proposed "New board:" 2011-07-07 12:12:15+0000 <antoviaque> yup I had read, it's good like that 2011-07-07 12:12:56+0000 <antoviaque> How do you make sure you keep the order though? or a reference of when this story happens? 2011-07-07 12:13:10+0000 <antoviaque> for example on http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/195 it's hard to say without the context 2011-07-07 12:13:35+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, what do you mean by "when", in this context? 2011-07-07 12:14:09+0000 <arbrandes> The order will be set by the priority field (and this is still something I'm unsure of, having never done it this way) 2011-07-07 12:14:15+0000 <antoviaque> This is a sequence of actions - first the author picks a card, etc. 2011-07-07 12:14:27+0000 <antoviaque> it's not necessarily the priority of development 2011-07-07 12:14:52+0000 <antoviaque> but more to know where precisely in the game the story is happening 2011-07-07 12:15:32+0000 <antoviaque> for example in #195, how do you know that "A popup asks the author if he wants to validate the choice of card" happens after he has been delt 6 cards? 2011-07-07 12:17:23+0000 <arbrandes> Well, most of the order of things should be implicit in the order of the stories. You see, you can't possibly deliver #195 without first delivering #194, otherwise he has no cards to chose from. 2011-07-07 12:17:34+0000 <arbrandes> deliver is the keyword 2011-07-07 12:17:50+0000 <arbrandes> Once you finish a story, it should work 2011-07-07 12:18:15+0000 <arbrandes> I know this doesn't answer your question fully 2011-07-07 12:18:34+0000 <antoviaque> you mean you refer to the ticket number? what if you need to add a story (or split one in two) right in the middle? 2011-07-07 12:19:08+0000 <arbrandes> And this is why user stories are not always enough. Jo mentioned "GD" docs, other folks use external specifications, wiki pages, etc. 2011-07-07 12:19:19+0000 <arbrandes> No, not ticket number 2011-07-07 12:19:29+0000 <arbrandes> I mean implicitly to the nature of the story 2011-07-07 12:19:43+0000 <arbrandes> What would be explicit is the priority 2011-07-07 12:20:05+0000 <arbrandes> Which, I should explain, is *not* a real priority, it's an actual ordering 2011-07-07 12:20:22+0000 <arbrandes> And that is why I was unsure of using the priority field for this 2011-07-07 12:20:46+0000 <arbrandes> Currently, we have what, 4 priorities? 2011-07-07 12:20:52+0000 <antoviaque> to explain more - before we used to refer to the view: for example we would say "In the view "author - invite", add a facebook button" to know where this is in the game (which step basically) 2011-07-07 12:21:16+0000 <antoviaque> hum, 4 yep I think 2011-07-07 12:21:24+0000 <antoviaque> we can put as many as we want though I think 2011-07-07 12:21:54+0000 <arbrandes> yes, but then it becomes a real pain when you want to reorder them. :) But maybe it won't be so bad in practice, we'll see 2011-07-07 12:22:03+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 12:22:22+0000 <arbrandes> To address you previous comment 2011-07-07 12:22:28+0000 <arbrandes> "In the view author ..." 2011-07-07 12:22:41+0000 <arbrandes> That is a user story right there, just written differently 2011-07-07 12:23:03+0000 <arbrandes> In our current format, we would write something like: 2011-07-07 12:23:21+0000 <arbrandes> "New board: The author can invite friends using Facebook" 2011-07-07 12:23:31+0000 <arbrandes> And in the description: 2011-07-07 12:23:55+0000 <arbrandes> "He sees the facebook button side-by-side with the invitation form" 2011-07-07 12:23:59+0000 <arbrandes> or something to that effect 2011-07-07 12:25:56+0000 <arbrandes> There is no need to go much deeper than that: the tasks will be much more detailed, something done during the sprint planning session. 2011-07-07 12:26:02+0000 <antoviaque> ok, let's try like this 2011-07-07 12:26:22+0000 <antoviaque> I fear this may be a bit difficult to know what the story is refering to sometimes, but I'm probably worrying for nothing : ) 2011-07-07 12:27:19+0000 <arbrandes> A good rule is this: if you, David, Loic or Deborah can't tell what the story is about at a glance, it's probably not good. 2011-07-07 12:27:51+0000 <antoviaque> yup, will keep it in mind :) 2011-07-07 12:28:12+0000 <antoviaque> ok let's try for the next one: "New board: After picking a card, the author is asked to enter a story" 2011-07-07 12:28:15+0000 <arbrandes> I would even go further and say: if a real player can't tell what the story is about (if the "user" part of the story refers to the player, that is), it is also not good. 2011-07-07 12:28:50+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, perfect 2011-07-07 12:28:51+0000 <antoviaque> yes, the ideal is to also give visibility to players, too 2011-07-07 12:29:48+0000 <arbrandes> Now in the description you can go into as much detail as you're comfortable with. Things like "see mockup 2", or "this will happen after he/she bla-bla-bla" 2011-07-07 12:30:04+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 12:30:33+0000 <arbrandes> Or in this present case, the description could (and should) enter into a brief explanation of how this is different than before. 2011-07-07 12:30:56+0000 <arbrandes> (because we're talking about the "new" board, after all) 2011-07-07 12:34:55+0000 <antoviaque> After the author has picked a card, the chosen card is centered, enlarged and a field appears in which he is prompted to write the story https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/raw/028541469554a6daf4a51b4f5de708d08eac29c3/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/2.png . After having typed at least two characters, the OK button appears. Clicking on it records the story, which is kept as a bubble on top of the card like in http 2011-07-07 12:35:02+0000 <antoviaque> Not too long? 2011-07-07 12:35:30+0000 <arbrandes> For the description, it's perfect 2011-07-07 12:35:39+0000 <antoviaque> ok, cool 2011-07-07 12:35:42+0000 <antoviaque> entering the ticket then 2011-07-07 12:36:32+0000 <arbrandes> Have you player RPGs before? It's like being the Dungeon Master 2011-07-07 12:37:01+0000 <arbrandes> If you describe it too little, the players (i.e., developers) will be lost 2011-07-07 12:37:01+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, yep - it's true ;p 2011-07-07 12:37:12+0000 <arbrandes> If you describe it too much, the players will be bored 2011-07-07 12:38:19+0000 <arbrandes> The analogy goes one step further: the best Dungeon Masters learn to think like the players, and that is exactly what should be done when writing a user story. 2011-07-07 12:39:26+0000 <antoviaque> I understand - thanks, it's good to have this perspective : ) 2011-07-07 12:40:27+0000 <arbrandes> cool, I think it is actually one of the nice things about stories over, say, use cases. They're more fun! 2011-07-07 12:47:28+0000 <arbrandes> I'm fooling with a custom "Order" field for the story tracker, let's see if it works 2011-07-07 12:47:51+0000 <antoviaque> Next one: New board: After picking a story, slots for other players are displayed // The card and the story shrink and are moved to the right of the author icon on the board. The slots open for other players to join appear. "Mockup 2a":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/2a.png . An information box appears to propose to invite players - clicking on the ok button gets the box 2011-07-07 12:48:21+0000 <antoviaque> I hesitated to include the invitation behavior, but I opted for a shorter story - is this better? 2011-07-07 12:48:59+0000 <arbrandes> shorter stories are better, in general, so I agree 2011-07-07 12:49:15+0000 <arbrandes> However, for the title, I would try something more in the "active" voice for the user 2011-07-07 12:49:34+0000 <antoviaque> hmm 2011-07-07 12:49:45+0000 <arbrandes> "After picking a story, the author sees slots for other players" 2011-07-07 12:49:53+0000 <antoviaque> ahh I see 2011-07-07 12:49:55+0000 <arbrandes> It's a minor point, but it helps to think like the author 2011-07-07 12:50:17+0000 <arbrandes> It would be even better if we could think of something the author can *do* 2011-07-07 12:50:27+0000 <arbrandes> while still keeping the story short 2011-07-07 12:50:50+0000 <antoviaque> there is only clicking on the ok button, which is not very descriptive 2011-07-07 12:50:54+0000 <antoviaque> is it better? 2011-07-07 12:51:11+0000 <arbrandes> Let me look at the mockup, just a sec 2011-07-07 12:52:06+0000 <antoviaque> or clicking on the invite, but then that's the next story? 2011-07-07 12:52:37+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, you're right, in this case the important thing is that the author is given information 2011-07-07 12:52:57+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 12:53:04+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for checking :) 2011-07-07 12:53:24+0000 <arbrandes> np, I'm learning the new board as I go :) 2011-07-07 13:01:40+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When the author clicks on an empty player slot, he can invite players // Clicking on one of the empty players slots on "Mockup 2b":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/2b.png brings the "invite" window from the same mockup, which behaves the same way as it does in the current implementation. Clicking on "send invitation" or "like" doesn't close the window - closing 2011-07-07 13:02:09+0000 <antoviaque> => interesting case - here I noticed a missing element from the mockup, is it ok to proceed like that in such cases? 2011-07-07 13:02:24+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, always (good story, btw) 2011-07-07 13:02:33+0000 <antoviaque> ok, thanks :) 2011-07-07 13:03:00+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, many times the stories will exist without any mockups, so it's even expected. 2011-07-07 13:03:11+0000 <antoviaque> understood 2011-07-07 13:03:33+0000 <arbrandes> Leave it to the developers to complain during the planning meeting, hehehehe 2011-07-07 13:05:44+0000 <antoviaque> actually changing it to "New board: When the author or a player click on an empty player slot, he can invite players" 2011-07-07 13:05:56+0000 <antoviaque> to show that it's not only the author who can do that anymore 2011-07-07 13:06:35+0000 <arbrandes> That's a good way out of having two stories that require the same work 2011-07-07 13:06:47+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-07-07 13:06:47+0000 <arbrandes> That is what I usually do, too 2011-07-07 13:14:17+0000 <arbrandes> Just an FYI, I created the "Order" field as a simple integer input just for the Story tracker. I think it will serve our purposes better than the priority field, once we get to the ordering part. :) 2011-07-07 13:15:14+0000 <antoviaque> ok :) 2011-07-07 13:15:22+0000 <antoviaque> New board: The author and the players can invite using the chat // When players can invite other players (mockups 2a and 2b ), they can also click on one of the players of the "who is online?" list from the chat. A confirmation message then appears, clicking "ok" invites the player. This way of inviting players is also added to the "Invite" window of mockup 2b 2011-07-07 13:15:36+0000 <antoviaque> http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/199 2011-07-07 13:17:01+0000 <arbrandes> Ah, good story and good idea! :) 2011-07-07 13:17:39+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-07 13:18:06+0000 <arbrandes> The chat is very important now, it will also need some stories (as well as the logout button, etc.) 2011-07-07 13:19:45+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-07-07 13:20:38+0000 <antoviaque> New board: After picking a story, the author automatically announces it in the chat // The story is then announced automatically in the chat like if the author typed it himself. When any player clicks on this message, he joins the game. (Mockup 2a ) 2011-07-07 13:21:29+0000 <arbrandes> I would probably separate "When any player clicks on this message, he joins the game." into a new story. 2011-07-07 13:22:02+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 13:25:11+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When any player clicks on a game announcement in the chat, he joins the game // If the player is not already in the game, he joins it. If the player was on another page or game, the page is changed to display the game he clicked on (Mockup 2a ) 2011-07-07 13:39:11+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2011-07-07 13:39:16+0000 <antoviaque> re :) 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:22:23 PM) eve_: New item in tickets: Story #200 (New): New board: After picking a story, the author automatically announces it in the ... 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:25:12 PM) antoviaque: New board: When any player clicks on a game announcement in the chat, he joins the game // If the player is not already in the game, he joins it. If the player was on another page or game, the page is changed to display the game he clicked on (Mockup 2a ) 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:25:56 PM) arbrandes left the room (quit: Read error: Operation timed out). 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:27:24 PM) eve_: New item in tickets: Story #201 (New): New board: When any player clicks on a game announcement in the chat, he joins ... 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:37:25 PM) eve_: New item in tickets: Story #202 (New): New board: When a player writes in the chat, it is displayed on every player sc... 2011-07-07 13:39:31+0000 <antoviaque> (03:37:25 PM) eve_: New item in tickets: Story #203 (New): New board: Player can see which players are online 2011-07-07 13:40:23+0000 <arbrandes> thx, the stories look good 2011-07-07 13:40:29+0000 <arbrandes> did you get this? => 2011-07-07 13:40:31+0000 <arbrandes> <arbrandes> antoviaque, if you feel like it's taking too long, it's perfectly ok to just write the story titles, especially on stories that you believe will be only taken on in later sprints. 2011-07-07 13:40:32+0000 <arbrandes> <arbrandes> You can always fill in details later 2011-07-07 13:41:28+0000 <antoviaque> that's fine - I'll take the time to do it right this time, I'll probably speed things up as I get more familiar with the rest of the process : ) 2011-07-07 13:41:37+0000 <arbrandes> roger, roger :) 2011-07-07 13:42:03+0000 <antoviaque> it's good actually, it makes me think to make sure we have thought of everything, and that all the implicit knowledge is put in written form 2011-07-07 13:42:35+0000 <arbrandes> ah, yes, I have thought that same thing myself many times, when writing stories :) 2011-07-07 13:42:37+0000 <antoviaque> but on your side don't feel obliged to keep reading if you need to work on the code - I know how disruptive this can be 2011-07-07 13:42:41+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-07 13:42:58+0000 <arbrandes> no problem at all, I think I can do a little of both :) 2011-07-07 13:43:04+0000 <antoviaque> ok then :) 2011-07-07 13:48:54+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When a player clicks on the help button, an help message is displayed // When a player clicks on the "help / ?" button on the top right of the interface, an help message is displayed in the middle of the screen, to tell him what he need to do, or what he is waiting for. One different message is displayed for every step (some are currently missing in the mockups). The message looks and behaves the same way as the dial 2011-07-07 13:51:37+0000 <arbrandes> ok by me! 2011-07-07 13:51:43+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2011-07-07 13:52:17+0000 <antoviaque> brb - late lunch time ;p 2011-07-07 13:52:19+0000 <arbrandes> At some point the exact help messages will have to be specified, though 2011-07-07 13:52:21+0000 <arbrandes> roger 2011-07-07 13:52:25+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-07-07 13:52:35+0000 <arbrandes> lunch? It's what, 5 o'clock there? 2011-07-07 13:52:40+0000 <arbrandes> :) 2011-07-07 13:52:41+0000 <antoviaque> is this something that has to be done in stories, or can it be left for the sprint? 2011-07-07 13:52:46+0000 <antoviaque> 4pm :D 2011-07-07 13:53:01+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, it can be left for the sprint, definitely 2011-07-07 13:53:05+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-07-07 13:53:06+0000 <antoviaque> brb 2011-07-07 14:25:00+0000 <antoviaque> re : ) 2011-07-07 14:27:04+0000 <antoviaque> New board: Clicking on "Logout" logs out from the game // After clicking on the "logout / X" button on the top right, the player is logged out and returns to the login page. "Mockup 2a":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/2a.png 2011-07-07 14:27:46+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-07-07 14:32:19+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When a player joins the game, he is dealt 6 cards // The cards are moved face down from the deck to the player, one by one. All players in the game, including the author, get to see this happening. "Mockup 3":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/3.png If a player or the author isn't in the game while another player joins the game, he gets to see it the next time he 2011-07-07 14:35:53+0000 <arbrandes> Neat. I'm sorta away, cooking lunch (I'm a hillbilly, if I have lunch after 12:00, I die) 2011-07-07 14:36:50+0000 <antoviaque> ahah : ) 2011-07-07 14:36:56+0000 <antoviaque> bon apetit then : ) 2011-07-07 14:39:35+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When players joins his game, the author is informed of the next steps // As soon as one player joins the game, a different information box is shown ("mockup 4":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/4.png ) to inform him of what the player(s) are doing. The "go to vote" button is inactive until two players have joined the game, and the player can visualize a tooltip 2011-07-07 14:44:08+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When a player picks a card, all players can see it // As soon as a player has picked a card, all players including the author are informed through an animation and a change of status ("mockup 4":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/4.png ): one of the cards is moved away from the hand of the player and increases in size, face down. 2011-07-07 14:46:14+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When the author goes to the vote, he is shown a confirmation dialog // See "mockup 4a2":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/4a2.png 2011-07-07 14:50:32+0000 <antoviaque> New board: Before the vote starts, unused cards are returned to the deck // The cards that players didn't pick are moved back from the hands of the players to the deck, one by one. "Mockup 4a3":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/4a3.png 2011-07-07 14:51:47+0000 <antoviaque> + Selected cards are moved closer to the player who chose them, in place of the cards that were returned to the deck. 2011-07-07 15:02:00+0000 <antoviaque> New board: Before the vote starts, picked cards are shuffled and turned face up // Once only the picked cards remain on the board, the players and the author see them being moved to the middle of the board and shuffled ("mockup 4a3":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/4a3.png ) The cards remain face down during the operation, and neither the author or the players are able to 2011-07-07 15:06:12+0000 <antoviaque> actually, changed the description to: "Once only the picked cards remain on the board, the players and the author see them being moved (including the author card) to the middle of the board and shuffled (mockup 4a3 ). The story from the author card is moved on top of the author name. The cards remain face down during the operation, and neither the author or the players are able to figure out who picked which card from the card 2011-07-07 15:15:20+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When a player votes, all players & author see his status change // As soon as the vote starts the status of the player is changed to "is voting...". When a player has voted, it is changed to "has voted" as per the "mockup 5a":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/5a.png 2011-07-07 15:18:49+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When the vote starts, the author is informed about the next step // The author sees an information box ("mockup 5a":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/5a.png ) to inform him of what the player(s) are doing. The "announce results" button is inactive until two players have voted, and the player can visualize a tooltip explains why when he gets his mouse over the in 2011-07-07 15:21:16+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When the author announces the results, he is shown a confirmation dialog // See "mockup 5b":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/5b.png 2011-07-07 15:28:08+0000 <antoviaque> New board: Before the results are announced, each card is put back next to the player who picked it // The players and the author see the card shrink in size and returned, one by one, next to each of the players who originally picked it. The author card is the last one to be returned, next to the author. "Mockup 6":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/6.png 2011-07-07 15:28:59+0000 <antoviaque> + The author story is put back on top of the author card. 2011-07-07 15:42:24+0000 <antoviaque> New board: Before announcing the results, each of the votes is moved from the person who cast it to the card it was cast on // One by one, players and author see each of the envelopes representing the vote of the person, plus the name of the voter moved from his status ("mockup 6":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/6.png ) to the card he voted for ("mockup 7":https://gitori 2011-07-07 15:53:40+0000 <antoviaque> New board: When results are announced, the author and the players get a different explanation for each case // When the results are announced, the players and the authors are told if they won or lost, and why. ("mockup 7":https://gitorious.org/farsides/farsides/blobs/master/cardstories/board%20interface/Author/7.png ) A different explanation is provided in each case (depending on whether it is displayed to an author or a player 2011-07-07 15:53:55+0000 <antoviaque> finally over for the author mockups : ) 2011-07-07 15:53:59+0000 <antoviaque> ouf! 2011-07-07 15:54:32+0000 <antoviaque> hopefully it will go quicker with the player mockups when deborah has finished them, since there is a lot in common between author and players 2011-07-07 15:54:56+0000 <antoviaque> http://tickets.farsides.com/projects/cardstories/issues 2011-07-07 16:03:35+0000 <arbrandes> whoa, nice work antoviaque, that's a very healthy backlog we got now! 2011-07-07 16:03:42+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-07-07 16:03:50+0000 <antoviaque> sorting out the priorities now :) 2011-07-07 16:07:00+0000 <arbrandes> Once that's done, we can either estimate story bananas or jump straight to a sprint planning session to create tasks, depending on the urgency. 2011-07-07 16:07:19+0000 <arbrandes> Bananas are nice, but only really useful later on 2011-07-07 16:07:53+0000 <antoviaque> could be good to move fast - we can do the bananas for the next sprint? 2011-07-07 16:08:06+0000 <arbrandes> yup, that was what I was thinking 2011-07-07 16:08:13+0000 <antoviaque> perfect :) 2011-07-07 16:09:20+0000 <arbrandes> I don't think we can do tasks without dachary, though. At least it's supposed to be a team effort (as opposed to stories, which need only involved the Prod. Mng) 2011-07-07 16:09:30+0000 <antoviaque> yup, agreed 2011-07-07 16:09:48+0000 <antoviaque> especially because he already did work on the board 2011-07-07 16:09:55+0000 <arbrandes> exactly 2011-07-07 16:12:51+0000 <antoviaque> Let me know if the prioritization seem ok - http://tickets.farsides.com/issues?query_id=13 2011-07-07 16:13:22+0000 <antoviaque> note that it's missing the stories that are specific to the player side of things, since Deborah is still working on the mockups 2011-07-07 16:14:00+0000 <antoviaque> how do you handle such a case btw? each sprint is supposed to be a finalized version no? 2011-07-07 16:15:11+0000 <arbrandes> It's supposed to be something that is "deliverable", but that is very relative. If the author stories can be actually used by an author, that is supposedly good enough. 2011-07-07 16:15:51+0000 <arbrandes> But some of them will obviously have dependencies, such as the ones from the middle to the end 2011-07-07 16:16:05+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-07-07 16:18:47+0000 <arbrandes> The prioritization looks good 2011-07-07 16:19:29+0000 <arbrandes> When we choose stories for the actual sprint, we'll set the Order field to guarantee which ones are done first, second, and so on. 2011-07-07 16:19:51+0000 <arbrandes> We'll also create a target version for the sprint, and the stories and tasks will be aimed at that version. 2011-07-07 16:23:19+0000 <antoviaque> sounds good - thanks arbrandes 2011-07-07 16:24:03+0000 <arbrandes> Anyway, to answer your question, the way to handle it is to not have missing stories for any given sprint. But we'll know if we need them during the planning session, and there's no law against writing / rewriting stories then. :) 2011-07-07 16:24:04+0000 <arbrandes> np 2011-07-07 16:28:38+0000 <mati_> antoviaque: hey 2011-07-07 16:29:36+0000 <antoviaque> hi mati_ :) 2011-07-07 16:29:43+0000 <antoviaque> how are you? 2011-07-07 16:29:47+0000 <antoviaque> good to see you here :D 2011-07-07 16:29:50+0000 <mati_> hey, good 2011-07-07 16:30:15+0000 <mati_> i need your kmnowledge 2011-07-07 16:30:21+0000 <antoviaque> uhuh 2011-07-07 16:30:48+0000 <mati_> comment tu traduis "localisation" en francais? 2011-07-07 16:31:03+0000 <antoviaque> I think it's the same word 2011-07-07 16:31:06+0000 <antoviaque> let me check 2011-07-07 16:31:24+0000 <antoviaque> yep http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localisation_linguistique 2011-07-07 16:31:48+0000 <mati_> haha ok, cool. thx! 2011-07-07 16:32:16+0000 <antoviaque> (a good trick to translate, often better than dictionaries, is to look for the wikipedia page in english, and then follow the link to the french one on the left bar) 2011-07-07 16:32:22+0000 <antoviaque> you're welcome :) 2011-07-07 16:32:51+0000 <antoviaque> brb 2011-07-07 16:33:05+0000 <mati_> ok professor xavier 2011-07-07 17:45:22+0000 blanchard (blanchard) is now offline 2011-07-07 18:05:34+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-07-07 18:17:36+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2011-07-07 19:24:30+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-07-07 19:27:22+0000 <arbrandes> hi dachary! how are things? 2011-07-07 19:38:07+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: hi 2011-07-07 19:38:24+0000 <dachary> good. Exhausting day but good :-) 2011-07-07 19:38:40+0000 <arbrandes> hehehe, cool :) 2011-07-07 19:40:18+0000 <arbrandes> I was wondering if you could chat a bit about #189. I've started reading up on twisted / deferreds and the whole deal, with the objective of figuring out a way to mockup the needed django views inside test_djangoauth.py. 2011-07-07 19:43:46+0000 * dachary checking 2011-07-07 19:44:02+0000 <arbrandes> A simple question which might save me a lot of time: from inside test_djangoauth.py do you see a way to "preprocess" the getPage responses in djangoauth.py so they return something mocked, without actually starting a webserver to do so? I'm referring to something as described in http://magcius.mecheye.net/twisted/DeferHowTo-Fixup.html (scroll down to "Playing Fair", def userAuthWebPreprocess). 2011-07-07 19:46:22+0000 <arbrandes> Feel free to say "mu" if this is a stupid question. I haven't gotten to the inlineCallbacks part of the excellent twisted tutorial here: http://krondo.com/blog/?page_id=1327 2011-07-07 19:48:38+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: good work on #184 2011-07-07 19:48:45+0000 <dachary> it's merged in 2011-07-07 19:48:48+0000 <arbrandes> oh, thanks :) 2011-07-07 19:49:03+0000 <antoviaque> hi dachary : ) 2011-07-07 19:49:11+0000 <antoviaque> so did you win? :) 2011-07-07 19:49:11+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: hey 2011-07-07 19:49:26+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I always win. 2011-07-07 19:49:34+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah :) 2011-07-07 19:49:47+0000 <antoviaque> the worse is that it's true, it's scary ;p 2011-07-07 19:50:20+0000 * dachary kidding. Complete waste of time. Postponed november 3rd and wasted all morning listening to the judge. I talked during 5 minutes and it turned out the plaintive was not ready. 2011-07-07 19:51:10+0000 <arbrandes> Ack, I hate dealing with the justice system. I feel for you. 2011-07-07 19:51:33+0000 <antoviaque> That sounds efficient 2011-07-07 19:51:43+0000 <antoviaque> Maybe we could introduce the judge to scrum? 2011-07-07 19:51:56+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2011-07-07 19:52:13+0000 <arbrandes> hahaha, that's not a bad idea :) 2011-07-07 19:52:39+0000 <antoviaque> "lawyers, please write your plea stories in less than 140 characters" ;p 2011-07-07 19:53:27+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: regarding #189, I think faking getPage to return a fabricated result will be good enough. It would not be a good option if the protocol between cardstories + django was complex. But it is really simple and maintaining the mockups (i.e. the getPage fake behavior) to match the django behavior won't be too much trouble. 2011-07-07 19:53:58+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: for the board, explained the mockups as stories in the tracker today => http://tickets.farsides.com/issues?query_id=13 2011-07-07 19:54:08+0000 <dachary> the ideal solution would be to run django internaly as part of the test. There probably are ways to do that in django because there is a test framework. 2011-07-07 19:54:37+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I saw a lot of tickets, yes ;-) Good work. 2011-07-07 19:55:00+0000 <antoviaque> hehe :) *likes to spam* 2011-07-07 19:55:49+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: however, unless you're already familiar with this, it would require at least a day to get familiar with the test environment of django and the features it offers. I feel it's overkill in this case. But I will support your choice, whatever it is. Both have pro and cons, it's a matter of taste mostly. 2011-07-07 19:56:15+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, regarding your first point, that's what I'm currently researching, but stumped at precisely the "fake getPage" thing. 2011-07-07 19:58:00+0000 <arbrandes> regarding the django test framework, it doesn't actually create a web server, it just fakes it internally. It is useful and can be used externally, sure, but I would still need to fake the getPage()s. 2011-07-07 19:58:01+0000 <dachary> oh 2011-07-07 19:58:18+0000 <dachary> regarding fake: 2011-07-07 19:58:28+0000 <dachary> define self.getPage = getPage 2011-07-07 19:58:30+0000 <dachary> use it 2011-07-07 19:58:47+0000 <dachary> define self.getPage = client.getPage in __init__ 2011-07-07 19:58:59+0000 <dachary> use it instead of client.getPage 2011-07-07 19:59:09+0000 <arbrandes> Ah, I see, I'm allowed to change code to fit the test? 2011-07-07 19:59:10+0000 <dachary> and when you're in the test, replace o.getPage with your fake 2011-07-07 19:59:26+0000 <arbrandes> (I understood, btw, just a point of policy) 2011-07-07 19:59:59+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: yes, I don't mind. Adding indirections makes it easier to do tests and does not introduce an additional complexity. 2011-07-07 20:00:07+0000 <dachary> alsternatively you could 2011-07-07 20:00:13+0000 <dachary> ... 2011-07-07 20:00:16+0000 <dachary> nevermind 2011-07-07 20:00:22+0000 <dachary> the indirection is good 2011-07-07 20:00:43+0000 <arbrandes> Hehehe, ok, this makes it really, really easier now. I think I can finish it by today again. Thanks! :) 2011-07-07 20:01:04+0000 <dachary> and now ladies and gentlemen ... I'm going to *bed*. No joke. I'm exhausted. 2011-07-07 20:01:08+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: what do you think about http://farsides.com/activity/p/1112/ btw? 2011-07-07 20:01:10+0000 <dachary> 10pm here 2011-07-07 20:01:22+0000 <antoviaque> oh, ok - good night chap : ) 2011-07-07 20:01:32+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: at the moment I have no brain left. I donated my last brain cells to arbrandes :-) 2011-07-07 20:01:40+0000 <antoviaque> np 2011-07-07 20:01:48+0000 <arbrandes> good night, man, see you tomorrow (thanks for the cells! hehehee) 2011-07-07 20:01:52+0000 <antoviaque> have a good night : ) _______________________________________________ Farsides mailing list - [email protected] Wiki: http://farsides.com/ List: http://farsides.com/ml/ Forum: http://farsides.com/forum/ Ideas: http://farsides.com/ideas/ Chat: http://farsides.com/chat/
