Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-08-25.
2011-08-25 01:32:28+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2011-08-25 05:28:03+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 07:04:56+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-08-25 08:51:02+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 09:03:57+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2011-08-25 09:55:44+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-08-25 09:58:56+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 10:16:59+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2011-08-25 10:21:43+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 10:36:07+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-08-25 11:10:17+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, morning man 2011-08-25 11:10:26+0000 <arbrandes> question about the player view 2011-08-25 11:10:26+0000 <antoviaque> hi arbrandes : ) 2011-08-25 11:10:59+0000 <arbrandes> When exactly should the players joining be shown? During step 1 or step 2? 2011-08-25 11:11:05+0000 <arbrandes> I mean, 2011-08-25 11:11:16+0000 <arbrandes> on step 1 we show players that have *already* joined 2011-08-25 11:11:28+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-08-25 11:12:04+0000 <arbrandes> But how about players that join after the current player? 2011-08-25 11:12:31+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: they are shown because, when a player enters the game, other players may have joined too already - he sees a replay, but players can already be shown 2011-08-25 11:12:50+0000 <arbrandes> sure, I got that 2011-08-25 11:13:05+0000 <antoviaque> on the other side I think I understand what you mean - from a programming standpoint it changes things to show them earlier than on the author views 2011-08-25 11:13:07+0000 <arbrandes> But what about new players, when exactly are they to be shown? 2011-08-25 11:13:24+0000 <antoviaque> when they join 2011-08-25 11:13:34+0000 <antoviaque> but I think you can keep the behavior of the author views 2011-08-25 11:13:48+0000 <antoviaque> if it makes it easier 2011-08-25 11:14:03+0000 <arbrandes> Currently, no players are "shown" until after a card is picked 2011-08-25 11:14:18+0000 <antoviaque> yep, you can keep this behavior 2011-08-25 11:14:29+0000 <arbrandes> (I'm talking about player code that's already in place) 2011-08-25 11:14:30+0000 <arbrandes> ok 2011-08-25 11:16:01+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, wait - actually there may be some time & discussions going on between the moment a player joins and the moment the first card is picked 2011-08-25 11:16:48+0000 <antoviaque> so actually the best would be to show players (and new player joining) after the "replay" of the author steps 2011-08-25 11:17:07+0000 <antoviaque> (ie after he chose his card & sentence) 2011-08-25 11:17:21+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: does it makes sense ? ^ 2011-08-25 11:17:29+0000 * arbrandes reading 2011-08-25 11:18:05+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, let's break it down into the progress bar states. 2011-08-25 11:18:14+0000 <antoviaque> let me look at the progress base 2011-08-25 11:18:16+0000 <antoviaque> bar 2011-08-25 11:18:26+0000 <arbrandes> We got step 1, pick a fake card 2011-08-25 11:18:31+0000 <arbrandes> Then step 2, wait for others 2011-08-25 11:18:43+0000 <arbrandes> What I was planning on doing was: 2011-08-25 11:20:22+0000 <arbrandes> Step 1) show only players that have already joined, so that a) the slots are there before the author replay, b) the cards-being-dealt animation is shown right after the replay. Again, this would only be for players that have already joined. 2011-08-25 11:20:45+0000 <arbrandes> Step 2) while the player waits, new players are shown joining. 2011-08-25 11:20:52+0000 <arbrandes> But there might be complications even like this 2011-08-25 11:21:21+0000 <arbrandes> The problem is knowing which players to animate, and which to mark as having been shown. 2011-08-25 11:21:39+0000 <arbrandes> Previously, this was all done in one state only. 2011-08-25 11:21:46+0000 <arbrandes> Now, it'll have to be done across states. 2011-08-25 11:22:56+0000 <arbrandes> From a code standpoint, ideally all player-joining animation would be done in one state, namely, invitation_pick_wait() 2011-08-25 11:23:32+0000 <arbrandes> (i.e., step 2 on the progress bar) 2011-08-25 11:24:44+0000 <antoviaque> I think I understand better 2011-08-25 11:25:11+0000 <arbrandes> I just realized the problem is even worse: 2011-08-25 11:25:21+0000 <arbrandes> there's a reload right after picking a card 2011-08-25 11:25:33+0000 <arbrandes> So the *server* would have to keep track of who joined when 2011-08-25 11:25:45+0000 <antoviaque> there shouldn't be one - there is no need to change the url 2011-08-25 11:26:18+0000 * arbrandes looking at the code 2011-08-25 11:26:55+0000 <antoviaque> the reload is only forced for the author, because the game doesn't exist before we have the sentence&card (which could actually be prevented too, but would require non-trivial changes) 2011-08-25 11:27:53+0000 <arbrandes> you're right, sorry, it only happens for the author 2011-08-25 11:28:12+0000 <antoviaque> Ideally from a UI perspective, it would go like this: 2011-08-25 11:28:37+0000 <antoviaque> 1) The player joins the game, he sees all players already in the game 2011-08-25 11:29:03+0000 <antoviaque> 2) the replay of author steps happen (picking a card and a sentence) -- if a new player join, it is not shown 2011-08-25 11:29:56+0000 <antoviaque> 3) player is asked to pick a card -- players sees players who have joined while he was watching the replay, and new ones as they arrive 2011-08-25 11:30:28+0000 <antoviaque> 4) player has picked a card -- same as 3), as they arrive 2011-08-25 11:30:51+0000 <antoviaque> the reason is that 3) could last a long time 2011-08-25 11:31:08+0000 <antoviaque> and thus have players talking in the chat with players he doesn't see in the game 2011-08-25 11:31:30+0000 <arbrandes> makes sense 2011-08-25 11:31:48+0000 <antoviaque> (otherwise statistically, we would only see half of the players when we join until we pick a card) 2011-08-25 11:32:26+0000 <antoviaque> on the other side if it creates difficulties in the code, we can try to find a good compromise 2011-08-25 11:32:29+0000 <arbrandes> it does complicate things for the architecture, though 2011-08-25 11:32:39+0000 <antoviaque> yep, I imagine 2011-08-25 11:33:08+0000 <antoviaque> that's why I was for example proposing to not show any other player in 1), for example 2011-08-25 11:33:13+0000 <arbrandes> But since there is no reload in the middle, it's basically a matter of blurring the divide between states. 2011-08-25 11:33:26+0000 <antoviaque> to only have overlap between 2) and 4) 2011-08-25 11:33:31+0000 <antoviaque> 3) and 4) sorry 2011-08-25 11:34:07+0000 <antoviaque> but maybe there is more we can cut *thinking* 2011-08-25 11:35:54+0000 <antoviaque> yep, hard to cut more 1 & 2 it's not a big deal if we don't see other players, but 3) and 4) they should be shown as they arrive or it will give a "buggy" feeling 2011-08-25 11:36:36+0000 <antoviaque> we could always start like this, but it would probably mean changing it again in the short term, not sure it would be good 2011-08-25 11:37:05+0000 <arbrandes> In the author view, we handled state by adding a "noop" class to elements that were already animated. This won't work for cross-state, obviously, but we can always use metadata in $(root). Personally, I have nothing against that, since the client is no longer stateless anyway. 2011-08-25 11:38:42+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, why not, but I'm always a bit fearful of separating metadata from the DOM, it makes it hard to debug 2011-08-25 11:39:20+0000 <antoviaque> what about looking at the elements of the previous state before switching to the new one? 2011-08-25 11:39:26+0000 <arbrandes> I don't see another way of handling 3 + 4. 2011-08-25 11:39:41+0000 * arbrandes thinking 2011-08-25 11:40:20+0000 <antoviaque> Or even merging the states? Maybe the state separation could be state a = 1) & 2), state b = 3) & 4) ? 2011-08-25 11:40:45+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, not sure that would work well actually 2011-08-25 11:41:32+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, I think we'll hit another problem that isn't present in the author view, and we'll have to look at previous states (or metadata) anyway. 2011-08-25 11:42:37+0000 <arbrandes> The problem is how to smoothly transition from one state to the next (i.e. which animations to play), when the player isn't in charge of setting the game state. 2011-08-25 11:43:26+0000 <arbrandes> Previously, the screen just changed completely if the game went from picking to voting, or whatever 2011-08-25 11:44:00+0000 <arbrandes> Now we have to worry about showing or not showing this or that player joining, etc. 2011-08-25 11:44:25+0000 <arbrandes> I'm not sure, but it may be possible to skip states entirely 2011-08-25 11:45:05+0000 <arbrandes> Which would make looking at the "previous" state rather difficult without metadata. 2011-08-25 11:46:32+0000 <arbrandes> Related question: 2011-08-25 11:46:58+0000 <arbrandes> What happens if the player sits at the "picking a card" state, and the game progresses to the voting stage? 2011-08-25 11:47:19+0000 <arbrandes> I mean from an animation standpoint. 2011-08-25 11:47:55+0000 <arbrandes> Currently, he'll sit at "picking a card" forever; there's no poll going on. 2011-08-25 11:48:37+0000 <antoviaque> yep, I've put it in the new stories I've created for the end of the player views: http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/390 2011-08-25 11:48:59+0000 <antoviaque> basically he keeps seeing the game, but disappears from the board 2011-08-25 11:49:11+0000 <antoviaque> it's the "anonymous" views 2011-08-25 11:50:29+0000 <antoviaque> I know dachary worked on them shortly before the RMLL, but I'm not sure how much of it was done 2011-08-25 11:51:00+0000 <arbrandes> I've seen them in code, yes 2011-08-25 11:52:08+0000 <arbrandes> http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/390 doesn't specify what the player sees if he didn't pick a card, though 2011-08-25 11:52:29+0000 <arbrandes> If the screen just changes, it's easy 2011-08-25 11:52:44+0000 <arbrandes> If his cards need to be animated back to the deck, it's harder. 2011-08-25 11:53:11+0000 <antoviaque> no, just making him disappear is fine 2011-08-25 11:56:33+0000 <arbrandes> ok, this makes it a bit simpler to do 3+4. We can try looking at state 3 (invitation_pick) from 4 (invitation_pick_wait), to see who has been displayed joining already. Since apparently we don't need to keep state after 4, and 4 always follows 3, this should be enough. 2011-08-25 11:57:25+0000 <antoviaque> yup, sounds good 2011-08-25 11:57:34+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for looking for a solution : ) 2011-08-25 11:59:25+0000 <arbrandes> thanks for helping me out :) 2011-08-25 12:00:41+0000 <antoviaque> eve: start dailymeeting 2011-08-25 12:00:41+0000 * eve antoviaque arbrandes blanchard blanchard1 dachary mtyaka tartarugafeliz and al: daily meeting starts! Please say "eve_: yesterday|today|blockers <your report>" 2011-08-25 12:00:51+0000 <antoviaque> everyone around? : ) 2011-08-25 12:00:53+0000 <mtyaka> eve_: yesterday I finished image preloading (#367). 2011-08-25 12:00:53+0000 <eve> Done: I finished image preloading (#367) 2011-08-25 12:00:55+0000 <mtyaka> eve_: today I will review some of the items from arbrandes' queue (for real this time) 2011-08-25 12:00:55+0000 <eve> Next: I will review some of the items from arbrandes' queue (for real this time) 2011-08-25 12:00:56+0000 <mtyaka> eve_: blockers none! 2011-08-25 12:00:56+0000 <eve> Blockers: none 2011-08-25 12:01:13+0000 <arbrandes> heheheh, hey mtyaka, thanks for the reviews :) 2011-08-25 12:01:20+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka: :) 2011-08-25 12:01:23+0000 <antoviaque> and hello ;p 2011-08-25 12:01:34+0000 <mtyaka> hi both of you :) 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <antoviaque> eve_: yesterday 121 with mtyaka, added all remaining stories for finishing player views, estimated watermelons for remaining player views stories with tartarugafeliz (actually almost all the design work is done, all good), received & paid final version of card stories home (ready for integration), Plebia: improving the way episodes/seasons/series are handled server-side (to allow for knowing what's the last episode, how many ep 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <eve> Done: 121 with mtyaka, added all remaining stories for finishing player views, estimated watermelons for remaining player views stories with tartarugafeliz (actually almost all the design work is done, all good), received & paid final version of card stories home (ready for integration), Plebia: improving the way episodes/seasons/series are handled server-side (to allow for knowing what's the last episode, how many ep 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <antoviaque> eve_: today Plebia: improving the way episodes/seasons/series are handled 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <eve> Next: Plebia: improving the way episodes/seasons/series are handled 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <antoviaque> eve_: blockers none 2011-08-25 12:02:06+0000 <eve> Blockers: none 2011-08-25 12:02:21+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: next? :) 2011-08-25 12:02:41+0000 <arbrandes> Home is ready for integration, then? Cool! 2011-08-25 12:02:47+0000 <antoviaque> yep : ) 2011-08-25 12:02:51+0000 <tartarugafeliz> eve_: yesterday I worked on #380 (Design CNC document) eve_: today and the rest of the week I'll work on #380 (Design CNC document) eve_: blockers none 2011-08-25 12:02:51+0000 <eve> Done: I worked on #380 (Design CNC document) eve_: today and the rest of the week I'll work on #380 (Design CNC document) eve_: blockers none 2011-08-25 12:03:07+0000 <arbrandes> Ahh, the ol' watermelon truck 2011-08-25 12:03:11+0000 <arbrandes> good luck, tartarugafeliz :) 2011-08-25 12:03:15+0000 <tartarugafeliz> thank you!!! 2011-08-25 12:03:21+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: you need to put on several lines *pain in the ass* :) 2011-08-25 12:03:32+0000 <arbrandes> heheheh 2011-08-25 12:03:44+0000 <tartarugafeliz> its not a pain in the ass its just that it requires a lot of creativity 2011-08-25 12:03:55+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and I'm in a low these days, I don't know what's going on 2011-08-25 12:04:03+0000 <tartarugafeliz> with my turtle's brain 2011-08-25 12:04:04+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahahaha 2011-08-25 12:04:07+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah 2011-08-25 12:04:15+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: ok, but I was talking about the message to eve ;p 2011-08-25 12:04:22+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ahhh 2011-08-25 12:04:23+0000 <tartarugafeliz> sorry± 2011-08-25 12:04:27+0000 <arbrandes> heheheheh, I wish my poor monkey brain were as creative as your turtle one, lol 2011-08-25 12:04:28+0000 <antoviaque> Want some cartoons to help with creativity? :p 2011-08-25 12:04:36+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahaah 2011-08-25 12:04:52+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes, I'll see what I can do 2011-08-25 12:04:53+0000 <antoviaque> ok all good for today? 2011-08-25 12:04:58+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <arbrandes> eve_, yesterday : fixed bugs (#383: FF display problems, #384: show author player_id), started showing new board on player view (#399). 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <eve> Done: : fixed bugs (#383: FF display problems, #384: show author player_id), started showing new board on player view (#399) 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <arbrandes> eve_, today : Discussed player view state issues with antoviaque (see above, hehehe), will create more tasks, finish new board on player view (#399). 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <eve> Next: : Discussed player view state issues with antoviaque (see above, hehehe), will create more tasks, finish new board on player view (#399) 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <arbrandes> eve_, blockers : None! 2011-08-25 12:05:04+0000 <eve> Blockers: : None 2011-08-25 12:05:12+0000 <antoviaque> oooops, forgot you arbrandes :D 2011-08-25 12:05:16+0000 <arbrandes> hahahahha 2011-08-25 12:05:20+0000 <antoviaque> I'm not used to you not being first anymore ahaha 2011-08-25 12:05:31+0000 <arbrandes> np, what goes around, comes around (I forgot you once, too, remember? ;) 2011-08-25 12:05:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahaha! 2011-08-25 12:05:43+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, we're even, ok :D 2011-08-25 12:06:03+0000 <antoviaque> ok, all good then 2011-08-25 12:06:08+0000 <antoviaque> thanks everyone :) 2011-08-25 12:06:12+0000 <arbrandes> thanks! 2011-08-25 12:06:15+0000 <antoviaque> eve: stop dailymeeting 2011-08-25 12:06:16+0000 <eve> antoviaque: *blink* 2011-08-25 12:06:22+0000 <antoviaque> eve: end dailymeeting 2011-08-25 12:06:22+0000 <eve> Meeting Ended 2011-08-25 12:06:22+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/464247 2011-08-25 12:07:03+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, before I forget, can you please take a look at estimated times for #383, #384, and specially #399? 2011-08-25 12:07:18+0000 <antoviaque> sure 2011-08-25 12:07:20+0000 <antoviaque> let me see 2011-08-25 12:07:43+0000 <arbrandes> #399 will take a while because there's the new progress bar and several other details that sum up. 2011-08-25 12:08:07+0000 <arbrandes> (still only one banana, though) 2011-08-25 12:09:41+0000 <antoviaque> all good for me 2011-08-25 12:09:43+0000 <arbrandes> Oh, and there was also a quicky: #398 2011-08-25 12:10:19+0000 <antoviaque> ok too : ) 2011-08-25 12:10:37+0000 <arbrandes> thanks :) 2011-08-25 12:10:53+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for keeping an eye on OWA, it's easy to forget but will be useful to have it working well when the time comes : ) 2011-08-25 12:12:01+0000 <arbrandes> yes, definitely; it's what'll give us our delicious metrics to show investors. :) 2011-08-25 12:12:13+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, yep : ) 2011-08-25 13:34:25+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 15:08:53+0000 <tartarugafeliz> blanchard: are you busy? can I ask you a question? :) 2011-08-25 15:09:22+0000 <blanchard> please do 2011-08-25 15:09:54+0000 <tartarugafeliz> on the CNC document, when we show the screens of the game, can I make one screen per page or is it too much? because its too small right now, we can barely see it 2011-08-25 15:10:33+0000 <blanchard> you mean when we explain the workflow ? 2011-08-25 15:10:59+0000 <blanchard> how about 2 per page ? Do you think we could see something ? 2011-08-25 15:11:57+0000 <blanchard> my feeling is that one per page is a bit too much (in term of pages used) but if really we can't see when more than one, then sure no problem 2011-08-25 15:12:02+0000 <blanchard> tartarugafeliz: ^ 2011-08-25 15:15:59+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ups sorry 2011-08-25 15:16:11+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I'm using the internet version and it doesn't alarm me when people talk to me 2011-08-25 15:16:13+0000 <tartarugafeliz> it suuucks! 2011-08-25 15:16:18+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ok, I'll do 2 per page 2011-08-25 15:16:46+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-08-25 15:22:02+0000 <tartarugafeliz> blanchard: and its not author anymore its Game Master, do you change that on the text later? :) 2011-08-25 15:56:46+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-08-25 17:07:33+0000 <blanchard> tartarugafeliz: sure i can rename it in the text 2011-08-25 17:28:57+0000 arbrandes_ (arbrandes_) is now online 2011-08-25 21:37:52+0000 <arbrandes> night dewds
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