Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-10-27.
2011-10-27 06:49:37+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-10-27 09:10:19+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-10-27 09:10:56+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-10-27 09:22:21+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-10-27 11:11:01+0000 <blanchard> hi, I won't be able to attend the meeting today (school constraint). I'll be at cité des sciences at 4.30 though. 2011-10-27 11:26:54+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2011-10-27 12:20:23+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard: ok 2011-10-27 12:20:39+0000 <antoviaque> hi all : ) 2011-10-27 12:31:05+0000 <antoviaque> eve: start dailymeeting 2011-10-27 12:31:05+0000 * eve antoviaque arbrandes blanchard blanchard1 dachary mtyaka tartarugafeliz and al: daily meeting starts! Please say "eve_: yesterday|today|blockers <your report>" 2011-10-27 12:31:29+0000 <antoviaque> eve: yesterday Played with players, playtest/demo of card stories at la cite des sciences, wrote down feedback/bugs seen in games, unit tests/debug on Plebia 2011-10-27 12:31:29+0000 <eve> Done: Played with players, playtest/demo of card stories at la cite des sciences, wrote down feedback/bugs seen in games, unit tests/debug on Plebia 2011-10-27 12:31:29+0000 <antoviaque> eve: blockers none! 2011-10-27 12:31:30+0000 <eve> Blockers: none 2011-10-27 12:31:29+0000 <antoviaque> eve: today Discuss orga with dachary & mtyaka (main repo, code reviews, status), play with players, debug/unit test Plebia as time allows 2011-10-27 12:31:30+0000 <eve> Next: Discuss orga with dachary & mtyaka (main repo, code reviews, status), play with players, debug/unit test Plebia as time allows 2011-10-27 12:32:08+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard is not there, he warned that he had to go to the school he's teaching at 2011-10-27 12:32:23+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ah its true 2011-10-27 12:32:25+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: mtyaka: dachary: there? 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <tartarugafeliz> eve: yesterday Played with players, playtest/demo of card stories at la cite des sciences - there are some players that are coming back every day and one of them wrote lots of ideas on the forum. Yesterday ot the cite des sciences, there were 2 families that came and played a lot! One of them, the kids didn't want to leave the place and the best part for most kids its to create the stories. 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <eve> Done: Played with players, playtest/demo of card stories at la cite des sciences - there are some players that are coming back every day and one of them wrote lots of ideas on the forum. Yesterday ot the cite des sciences, there were 2 families that came and played a lot! One of them, the kids didn't want to leave the place and the best part for most kids its to create the stories 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <tartarugafeliz> eve: today I'm going to the cite des sciences with blanchard to play with more kids. 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <eve> Next: I'm going to the cite des sciences with blanchard to play with more kids 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <tartarugafeliz> eve: blockers none. 2011-10-27 12:32:27+0000 <eve> Blockers: none 2011-10-27 12:32:29+0000 <antoviaque> hello : ) 2011-10-27 12:32:33+0000 <mtyaka> hi :) 2011-10-27 12:32:50+0000 <antoviaque> hi mtyaka : ) 2011-10-27 12:32:58+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hey champ! 2011-10-27 12:33:17+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: thanks for the recap about our young community : ) 2011-10-27 12:33:17+0000 <dachary> here 2011-10-27 12:33:24+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :) 2011-10-27 12:33:24+0000 <antoviaque> hi dachary : ) 2011-10-27 12:33:29+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hi dachary!! 2011-10-27 12:33:36+0000 <dachary> eve: Done: nothing. 2011-10-27 12:33:36+0000 <eve> dachary: Excuse me? 2011-10-27 12:33:41+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah 2011-10-27 12:33:43+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahaha 2011-10-27 12:33:44+0000 <dachary> eve: Yesterday: nothing. 2011-10-27 12:33:44+0000 <eve> dachary: Excuse me? 2011-10-27 12:33:47+0000 <dachary> wtf 2011-10-27 12:33:50+0000 <dachary> ... 2011-10-27 12:33:50+0000 <antoviaque> she doesn't like the ":" 2011-10-27 12:33:51+0000 <dachary> ahahah 2011-10-27 12:33:53+0000 <tartarugafeliz> you don't need the two dots 2011-10-27 12:33:54+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes 2011-10-27 12:33:59+0000 <dachary> eve: Done nothing. 2011-10-27 12:33:59+0000 <eve> dachary: *blink* 2011-10-27 12:34:09+0000 <dachary> eve: Yesterday nothing. 2011-10-27 12:34:09+0000 <eve> Done: nothing 2011-10-27 12:34:13+0000 <dachary> wtf 2011-10-27 12:34:18+0000 <dachary> *she* gets to put : 2011-10-27 12:34:35+0000 <antoviaque> yep - it's yesterday the keyword : ) 2011-10-27 12:34:44+0000 <dachary> eve: Next discuss with antoviaque. 2011-10-27 12:34:44+0000 <eve> dachary: Huh? 2011-10-27 12:34:45+0000 <antoviaque> and she replies with done, it's confusing 2011-10-27 12:34:48+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-10-27 12:34:52+0000 <antoviaque> tomorrow ;p 2011-10-27 12:34:52+0000 <dachary> eve: Today discuss with antoviaque. 2011-10-27 12:34:53+0000 <eve> Next: discuss with antoviaque 2011-10-27 12:35:01+0000 <antoviaque> ah today yep 2011-10-27 12:35:11+0000 <dachary> eve: Blockers none. 2011-10-27 12:35:11+0000 <eve> Blockers: none 2011-10-27 12:35:14+0000 <antoviaque> ahaha, I'll have to change her replies I guess 2011-10-27 12:35:20+0000 <antoviaque> sorry for the trouble dachary : ) 2011-10-27 12:35:21+0000 <dachary> for some reason I remember what Eve says 2011-10-27 12:35:30+0000 <dachary> and not what *I* should say ;-) 2011-10-27 12:35:33+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-10-27 12:35:40+0000 <dachary> sorry for being weird 2011-10-27 12:35:51+0000 <antoviaque> ahahah : ) 2011-10-27 12:35:55+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka: ? 2011-10-27 12:35:57+0000 <mtyaka> hehe 2011-10-27 12:36:01+0000 <mtyaka> eve: yesterday Played the game a bit, worked on #528 (game is slow), found out the large memory usage spike in FF is (unsurprisingly) due to the image preloading. Haven't found suitable a workaround yet :( 2011-10-27 12:36:01+0000 <eve> Done: Played the game a bit, worked on #528 (game is slow), found out the large memory usage spike in FF is (unsurprisingly) due to the image preloading. Haven't found suitable a workaround yet :( 2011-10-27 12:36:02+0000 <mtyaka> eve: today Probably won't have time to work on CS, but if I do, I'll try to come up with something for #528. 2011-10-27 12:36:03+0000 <eve> Next: Probably won't have time to work on CS, but if I do, I'll try to come up with something for #528 2011-10-27 12:36:04+0000 <mtyaka> eve: blockers None 2011-10-27 12:36:04+0000 <eve> Blockers: None 2011-10-27 12:36:31+0000 <tartarugafeliz> its too many images loading at the same time mtyaka? 2011-10-27 12:36:43+0000 <antoviaque> btw, it's really cool of you to come in the game - glad to be able to interact in this context, it changes :p 2011-10-27 12:36:48+0000 <mtyaka> tartarugafeliz: yes, and FF doesn't handle that very well 2011-10-27 12:37:12+0000 <mtyaka> antoviaque: it's fun :) 2011-10-27 12:37:25+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, yep :) 2011-10-27 12:37:28+0000 <tartarugafeliz> that's a tricky one to solve han? 2011-10-27 12:37:43+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and I like that you come to play too mtyaka and dachary 2011-10-27 12:37:55+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-10-27 12:37:57+0000 <mtyaka> tartarugafeliz: yes, the preloading itself is sort of a hack already 2011-10-27 12:38:20+0000 <mtyaka> not sure what (if anything) can be done to reduce memory usage in FF 2011-10-27 12:38:27+0000 <tartarugafeliz> is there something that maybe I can do? 2011-10-27 12:38:30+0000 <dachary> I'm not in the mood. I saw photos of me 19 years old, I'm still in shock. 2011-10-27 12:38:36+0000 <dachary> :-P 2011-10-27 12:38:53+0000 <mtyaka> lol dachary :) 2011-10-27 12:39:09+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: lol, what? :p 2011-10-27 12:39:22+0000 <antoviaque> I have to see this picture :D 2011-10-27 12:39:28+0000 <antoviaque> post on the buddypress! :p 2011-10-27 12:39:40+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahahahah 2011-10-27 12:39:43+0000 <tartarugafeliz> me too!!!! 2011-10-27 12:39:44+0000 <dachary> mtyaka: what's the ff memory usage problem ? 2011-10-27 12:39:59+0000 * dachary change the subject after introducing it (shocked) 2011-10-27 12:40:10+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahaha 2011-10-27 12:40:10+0000 <tartarugafeliz> awww cmon we really want to see it! 2011-10-27 12:40:11+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahhaahahha 2011-10-27 12:40:15+0000 <antoviaque> I won't forget :D 2011-10-27 12:40:24+0000 <dachary> from what I see there are 3GB of free RAM on cardstories, it's holding up 2011-10-27 12:40:57+0000 <dachary> server side 2011-10-27 12:41:21+0000 <dachary> I don't see why cardstories would use that much memory unless it's leaking somehow 2011-10-27 12:41:21+0000 <mtyaka> dachary: FF eats a lot of memory (about 400MB) during image preloading phase... 2011-10-27 12:41:36+0000 <dachary> hum 2011-10-27 12:41:51+0000 <dachary> how big are these images total ? 2011-10-27 12:42:12+0000 <mtyaka> I was looking at the "about:memory" page in firefox 2011-10-27 12:42:23+0000 <mtyaka> compressed images are about 6 MB 2011-10-27 12:42:30+0000 <mtyaka> but uncompressed over 300 MB 2011-10-27 12:43:36+0000 <mtyaka> FF seems to decompress and load the images into memory... and is not very got at releasing that memory fast 2011-10-27 12:43:47+0000 <mtyaka> chrome is much better in this respect 2011-10-27 12:45:07+0000 <mtyaka> the problem is that during the preloading phase, all of the images get loaded into memory (to get cached) so FF needs a lot of memory in a very short period of time, which can lead to very poor performance on computers without lots of free memory 2011-10-27 12:45:45+0000 <dachary> mtyaka: understood 2011-10-27 12:45:45+0000 <mtyaka> I don't know if there is any way to *not* load the images into memory while still making sure they are cached 2011-10-27 12:45:54+0000 <dachary> I did not know about:memory, cool ;-) 2011-10-27 12:46:43+0000 <mtyaka> dachary: there's something I wanted to ask you about polling... 2011-10-27 12:46:50+0000 <dachary> sure 2011-10-27 12:47:13+0000 <mtyaka> There is a problem with the chat (in FF again) 2011-10-27 12:47:24+0000 <dachary> regarding memory I think there is no solution. Either you cache and eat memory. Or you don't and you save memory at the expense of lag. 2011-10-27 12:47:53+0000 <mtyaka> sometimes FF will miss keypresses in the chat input field 2011-10-27 12:47:58+0000 <mtyaka> which is quite annoying 2011-10-27 12:48:24+0000 <mtyaka> I found out the reason was because the poll ajax request has "async" set to "false" 2011-10-27 12:48:48+0000 <mtyaka> synchronous requests make FF block the UI completely, it seems 2011-10-27 12:49:13+0000 <mtyaka> (which sort of makes sense or they wouldn't be very synchronous) 2011-10-27 12:49:44+0000 <mtyaka> if I change the async to true, the problem goes away 2011-10-27 12:50:23+0000 <dachary> I noticed it 2011-10-27 12:50:26+0000 <mtyaka> So my question is, can we set the call to be asynchronous? 2011-10-27 12:50:51+0000 <antoviaque> not sure about this, but I think arbrandes mentioned setting to asynchronous to help fixing a bug, but I can't get a hold of the bug in question 2011-10-27 12:51:05+0000 <dachary> if you set to async you'll run into race conditions, I think 2011-10-27 12:51:30+0000 <dachary> I did not know FF would *lose* keypress when a sync call is being made. Are you 100% sure of that ? 2011-10-27 12:51:59+0000 <dachary> It looks like a major bug. 2011-10-27 12:52:00+0000 <mtyaka> I am about 80% sure :) 2011-10-27 12:52:41+0000 <dachary> :-D 2011-10-27 12:53:02+0000 <mtyaka> I can try to create an isolated (and more obvious) test 2011-10-27 12:53:27+0000 <mtyaka> For now I just noticed that the problem with lost keypresses doesn't happen if I change the async attribute to true 2011-10-27 12:54:09+0000 <dachary> I think it's worth checking. The sync of poll was on purpose. It requires a lot of thinking to be sure there won't be race conditions. We may be able to avoid race conditions with async but I'd have to think about it for a few hours. 2011-10-27 12:55:22+0000 <mtyaka> ok, i will make sure whether non-async is the culprit or not 2011-10-27 12:55:31+0000 <mtyaka> and I'll let you know 2011-10-27 12:55:37+0000 <mtyaka> Thanks for now! 2011-10-27 12:56:09+0000 <dachary> mtyaka: I think there no easy way out. If you reproduce the problem in isolation, we will have to switch to async and I'll spend the time necessary to figure it out. If you don't reproduce the problem it means there is something else to guess and it will also take time. 2011-10-27 12:56:46+0000 <antoviaque> btw while you're both around mtyaka & dachary, I wanted to discuss a bit the orga for code 2011-10-27 12:56:46+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes won't be around in the short future (he said he would come back at some point when I talked to him on Friday btw, he just needs some time) 2011-10-27 12:56:46+0000 <antoviaque> so we need to see how we adapt in the meantime, for example for the "main" repo, code reviews, etc. 2011-10-27 12:56:46+0000 <antoviaque> how do you see things? 2011-10-27 12:56:55+0000 <dachary> In any case I think you won't be losing your time trying to make sure. 2011-10-27 12:57:14+0000 <mtyaka> dachary: yup, agreed 2011-10-27 12:57:34+0000 <antoviaque> (sorry, lag again, didn't see you weren't finished) 2011-10-27 12:57:54+0000 <dachary> (phone) 2011-10-27 12:59:31+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-10-27 12:59:49+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka what do you think would be good? 2011-10-27 13:00:47+0000 <mtyaka> antoviaque: It depends on how much time dachary has available (and if he's willing to take over the main repo and reviews) 2011-10-27 13:01:14+0000 <mtyaka> That would probably be the best solution, at least until arbrandes is back 2011-10-27 13:01:25+0000 <antoviaque> true - dachary you're in for 1 paid day/week right? don't think we have agreed to it explicitly 2011-10-27 13:01:55+0000 <antoviaque> and yep, agreed 2011-10-27 13:04:52+0000 <dachary> gtg bb in 1 h 2011-10-27 13:05:21+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: ok, we resume the discussion when you're back - mtyaka you can stick around or you have to go? 2011-10-27 13:06:28+0000 <mtyaka> antoviaque: I'll have to leave soon (in about 30 minutes) and won't be back until the evening 2011-10-27 13:06:49+0000 <antoviaque> ok, will try again in the evening - otherwise tomorrow for the meeting : ) 2011-10-27 13:06:52+0000 <antoviaque> thanks! 2011-10-27 13:06:58+0000 <mtyaka> sure, np :) 2011-10-27 13:07:03+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-10-27 13:07:08+0000 <antoviaque> eve: end dailymeeting 2011-10-27 13:07:09+0000 <eve> Meeting Ended 2011-10-27 13:07:09+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/499009 2011-10-27 14:15:40+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-10-27 14:15:47+0000 <dachary> back 2011-10-27 14:17:07+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I'm ok for 1 paid day/week, yes. And taking over maintainance of the main repo & reviews would be a pleasure. And also a good way to get a sense of what the overall project has become ;-) 2011-10-27 14:17:42+0000 <dachary> that being said, I think the money would be best spent on retaining arbrandes services when he is available. 2011-10-27 14:23:37+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: cool :) I'm glad! 2011-10-27 14:25:03+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: I discussed this with arbrandes and proposed to set aside money for him, he didn't want to make any commitment 2011-10-27 14:28:23+0000 <antoviaque> since we still have a pretty long list of bugfixes & polish, I think a good middle way is to focus on this polish phase, and still try to keep some money for larger features when arbrandes come back and we get back to having more firepower 2011-10-27 14:28:23+0000 <antoviaque> retention is already not null, so we have much to do on the community development side even without new features, you're right on this 2011-10-27 14:30:07+0000 <dachary> how much arbrandes time can you afford to commit to ? 1 week ? 2 months ? 2011-10-27 14:30:10+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: ^ 2011-10-27 14:34:01+0000 <antoviaque> would need to confirm with blanchard, but what I kept in mind is 1 month full time with what we have now, plus 1 other month when/if felix pays the other half 2011-10-27 14:36:44+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I suggest you put the money aside, send him a formal order for 1 month of work starting january first. And just let him get back to you when / if he wants. A firm commitment means a lot when you're a contractor. 2011-10-27 14:37:11+0000 <dachary> arbrandes is much more than this in this project. But he is also a contractor and most certainly not insensitive to certainty. 2011-10-27 14:37:33+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: I think he would feel it as pushing, I would rather let him come back on his own 2011-10-27 14:37:51+0000 <antoviaque> he knows about it from our conversation, now it's up to him 2011-10-27 14:39:42+0000 <antoviaque> we can talk with blanchard to see how much we can leave for january though, it's good to know that part 2011-10-27 14:40:30+0000 <dachary> You can send the order and clearly say that if he is free to decline up to january 1st. But that farsides will not decline. And you can also explain that it is a good use of the money (postponing its expense until january) even if he decides to refuse. Only you make a commitment to him. 2011-10-27 14:41:29+0000 <antoviaque> I see what you mean 2011-10-27 14:41:35+0000 <dachary> Great ;-) 2011-10-27 14:41:43+0000 <dachary> I'll stop *PushinG* then ;-) 2011-10-27 14:41:48+0000 <antoviaque> ok, we can try to see how much money we can put aside, and try this yep 2011-10-27 14:41:56+0000 <antoviaque> ahahaha, fair game :) 2011-10-27 14:42:19+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-10-27 14:42:36+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard: if you read this when you're back, would be good to look at the forecast :) 2011-10-27 14:46:33+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: thanks for the good advice, as always :) 2011-10-27 14:47:51+0000 <dachary> You know me I can't resist giving advices. That's part of my education, blame my parents ;-) 2011-10-27 14:50:12+0000 <antoviaque> hehehe, thanks to them too then ;p 2011-10-27 15:06:57+0000 <dachary> or not 2011-10-27 15:25:51+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2011-10-27 16:08:43+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-10-27 16:50:45+0000 <blanchard> antoviaque: reading the backlog 2011-10-27 16:51:36+0000 <blanchard> I lacked time today to look at forecast,it's on top of my todo tomorrow 2011-10-27 16:52:06+0000 <blanchard> I agree with dachary on the advice regarding Adolfo 2011-10-27 16:52:19+0000 <blanchard> it seems like a good idea to me 2011-10-27 17:04:42+0000 <dachary> :-) 2011-10-27 17:37:03+0000 <tartarugafeliz> dachary I'm happy we have your wisdom between us once more :) 2011-10-27 21:55:37+0000 MCMic (MCMic) is now online 2011-10-27 23:05:50+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online
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