Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2012-03-15.
2012-03-15 05:19:57+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-15 09:08:33+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2012-03-15 09:27:27+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-15 12:04:06+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-15 12:20:01+0000 blanchard_ (blanchard_) is now online 2012-03-15 13:31:05+0000 <antoviaque> hello! 2012-03-15 13:31:16+0000 <antoviaque> eve: start meeting 2012-03-15 13:31:17+0000 <eve> antoviaque: Sorry, meeting in progress. 2012-03-15 13:31:23+0000 <antoviaque> grrr 2012-03-15 13:31:42+0000 <antoviaque> one day i'll remember to end the meeting ;p 2012-03-15 13:31:52+0000 <antoviaque> eve: end meeting 2012-03-15 13:31:52+0000 <eve> Meeting Ended 2012-03-15 13:31:52+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/566024 2012-03-15 13:31:55+0000 <arbrandes> hehehehe 2012-03-15 13:31:56+0000 <antoviaque> eve: start meeting 2012-03-15 13:31:57+0000 * eve antoviaque arbrandes blanchard blanchard1 dachary mtyaka tartarugafeliz and al: daily meeting starts! Please say "eve: (done|next|blocked by) <first thing>, <second thing>, ..." 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <arbrandes> eve: done set up 2.8 and reviewed another of mtyaka's tasks. 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> arbrandes: Good job! 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <arbrandes> eve: next get started on 2.8 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> arbrandes: Quite a plan. 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <arbrandes> eve: blocked by discuss whether to upgrade to jquery 1.7 this sprint ((#877); discuss whether to fix failing tables test or wait for the rewrite (#865, last comment) 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> arbrandes: We'll need to solve that later, I'm adding it to the agenda 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> My notes of arbrandes's report: 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> - What arbrandes worked on: 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> * set up 2.8 and reviewed another of mtyaka's tasks 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> - What arbrandes will be working on next: 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> * get started on 2.8 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> - What's blocking arbrandes: 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> * discuss whether to upgrade to jquery 1.7 this sprint ((#877) 2012-03-15 13:32:02+0000 <eve> * discuss whether to fix failing tables test or wait for the rewrite (#865, last comment) 2012-03-15 13:32:17+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for 2.8 arbrandes : ) 2012-03-15 13:32:37+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, np :) still need to check with mtyaka if he wants to do anything specific 2012-03-15 13:33:29+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2012-03-15 13:33:35+0000 <antoviaque> eve: done Instead of the day off, worked on a potential concept for the Ycombinator application (the remote freelancing agency/marketplace inspired by our processes that we discussed some time ago - will need your feedback on this); wrote some website mockups for smoke testing the idea before trying to apply (application deadline on the 28th) 2012-03-15 13:33:35+0000 <eve> antoviaque: Good job! 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <antoviaque> eve: next If you like the idea, I'll keep working on it today (transform the mockups into HTML pages + forms, maybe work with tartarugafeliz to make it pretty) 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> antoviaque: Quite a plan. 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <antoviaque> eve: blocked by nothing 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> antoviaque: Glad to hear that 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> My notes of antoviaque's report: 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> - What antoviaque worked on: 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> * Instead of the day off, worked on a potential concept for the Ycombinator application (the remote freelancing agency/marketplace inspired by our processes that we discussed some time ago - will need your feedback on this) 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> * wrote some website mockups for smoke testing the idea before trying to apply (application deadline on the 28th) 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> - What antoviaque will be working on next: 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> * If you like the idea, I'll keep working on it today (transform the mockups into HTML pages + forms, maybe work with tartarugafeliz to make it pretty) 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> - What's blocking antoviaque: 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> * nothing 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <antoviaque> eve: agenda+ Feedback on the freelancing agency/marketplace concept 2012-03-15 13:33:36+0000 <eve> antoviaque: Ok, I added "Feedback on the freelancing agency/marketplace concept" to the agenda 2012-03-15 13:33:56+0000 <antoviaque> hey tartarugafeliz : ) 2012-03-15 13:33:58+0000 <antoviaque> eve: minutes so far 2012-03-15 13:33:58+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/566029 2012-03-15 13:34:01+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hello 2012-03-15 13:34:05+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: ^ what you missed 2012-03-15 13:34:31+0000 <mtyaka> eve: done Finished #865 (Tables not working), tables should now be fully functional. 2012-03-15 13:34:31+0000 <eve> mtyaka: Good job! 2012-03-15 13:34:33+0000 <mtyaka> eve: next Not sure. 2012-03-15 13:34:33+0000 <eve> mtyaka: Quite a plan. 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <mtyaka> eve: blocked by Need to discuss what to work on next. 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> mtyaka: We'll need to solve that later, I'm adding it to the agenda 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> My notes of mtyaka's report: 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> - What mtyaka worked on: 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> * Finished #865 (Tables not working), tables should now be fully functional 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> - What mtyaka will be working on next: 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> * Not sure 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> - What's blocking mtyaka: 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <eve> * Need to discuss what to work on next 2012-03-15 13:34:34+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, that's an interesting idea, although I don't think I was present in the initial discussion 2012-03-15 13:35:03+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ah true - it's basically an evolution of the "let 2012-03-15 13:35:07+0000 <arbrandes> How is it different from elancer? 2012-03-15 13:35:17+0000 <arbrandes> *elance 2012-03-15 13:35:22+0000 <antoviaque> "let's try to find freelances for the group" old idea 2012-03-15 13:35:31+0000 <arbrandes> ah, ok 2012-03-15 13:35:39+0000 <antoviaque> yep a little - I'll explain when we get to the topic, it's another paradigm :) 2012-03-15 13:35:45+0000 <arbrandes> kewl 2012-03-15 13:36:14+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka: cool, thanks for fixing those damn tables :D 2012-03-15 13:36:40+0000 <mtyaka> well, one test is still failing, as arbrandes mentioned :) 2012-03-15 13:36:43+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard: there? 2012-03-15 13:36:44+0000 blanchard_ (blanchard_) is now online 2012-03-15 13:36:52+0000 <antoviaque> hey blanchard_ : ) 2012-03-15 13:36:57+0000 <antoviaque> eve: minutes so far 2012-03-15 13:36:58+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/566033 2012-03-15 13:36:59+0000 <blanchard_> hi* 2012-03-15 13:37:05+0000 <blanchard_> sorry, connectivity issues 2012-03-15 13:37:16+0000 <antoviaque> np - you can catch up thanks to eve :p 2012-03-15 13:37:17+0000 <blanchard_> i'm in north of france, bad internet :) 2012-03-15 13:37:23+0000 <antoviaque> oh, nice! 2012-03-15 13:37:31+0000 <blanchard_> eve: done school and admin for farsides eve: next school (supinfogame at valenciennes, jury for students projects) eve: blocked by nothing 2012-03-15 13:37:31+0000 <eve> blanchard_: Good job! 2012-03-15 13:37:31+0000 <antoviaque> where exactly? Lille? 2012-03-15 13:37:38+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahah 2012-03-15 13:37:48+0000 <blanchard_> thx antoviaque :) 2012-03-15 13:37:51+0000 <blanchard_> eve: done school and admin for farsides 2012-03-15 13:37:51+0000 <eve> blanchard_: Good job! 2012-03-15 13:38:04+0000 <blanchard_> eve: next school (supinfogame at valenciennes, jury for students projects) 2012-03-15 13:38:04+0000 <eve> blanchard_: Quite a plan. 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <blanchard_> eve: blocked by nothing 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> blanchard_: Glad to hear that 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> My notes of blanchard_'s report: 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> - What blanchard_ worked on: 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> * school and admin for farsides eve: next school (supinfogame at valenciennes, jury for students projects) eve: blocked by nothing 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> * school and admin for farsides 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> - What blanchard_ will be working on next: 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> * school (supinfogame at valenciennes, jury for students projects) 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> - What's blocking blanchard_: 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <eve> * nothing 2012-03-15 13:38:13+0000 <antoviaque> trying to work for supinfogame too? 2012-03-15 13:38:36+0000 <blanchard_> antoviaque: valenciennes, not far from lille 2012-03-15 13:38:38+0000 * antoviaque notes that blanchard_ is turning into Pr. Blanchard 2012-03-15 13:38:40+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2012-03-15 13:38:59+0000 <antoviaque> is it nice over there? 2012-03-15 13:39:14+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: holidays so no report right? 2012-03-15 13:39:22+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap :) 2012-03-15 13:39:25+0000 <antoviaque> okay :) 2012-03-15 13:39:29+0000 <antoviaque> eve: next topic 2012-03-15 13:39:30+0000 <eve> antoviaque: The current topic is now "discuss whether to upgrade to jquery 1.7 this sprint ((#877)" (from arbrandes) 2012-03-15 13:39:50+0000 <arbrandes> The issue is the hundreds of deprecation warnings we are getting on Chrome 2012-03-15 13:40:00+0000 <arbrandes> eventX and eventY, specifically 2012-03-15 13:40:09+0000 <mtyaka> yeah, those are annoying 2012-03-15 13:40:22+0000 <arbrandes> It was apparently critical enough for the jQuery folks to simply remove them on 1.7 (as opposed to deprecating them) 2012-03-15 13:40:25+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: yup, read the ticket, could be worth it - but beware of side effects, last upgrade of jquery dachary did didn't went smoothly :) 2012-03-15 13:40:40+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, hmm, that's what I was afraid of 2012-03-15 13:41:03+0000 <antoviaque> but only one way to know :) 2012-03-15 13:41:11+0000 <arbrandes> I read around a bit, and some people say upgrades are smooth, some don't - yup, only one way to know :) 2012-03-15 13:41:18+0000 <arbrandes> Good thing we have tests, heheheheh 2012-03-15 13:41:23+0000 <antoviaque> heheh, yep! 2012-03-15 13:41:38+0000 <antoviaque> okay then : ) 2012-03-15 13:41:42+0000 <antoviaque> eve: next topic 2012-03-15 13:41:42+0000 <eve> antoviaque: The current topic is now "discuss whether to fix failing tables test or wait for the rewrite (#865, last comment)" (from arbrandes) 2012-03-15 13:42:05+0000 <blanchard_> i need to deco i'm having some issue with pc/connectivity. I'll try to come back later, sorry for that. 2012-03-15 13:42:16+0000 <arbrandes> The question is actually: any chance of a rewrite this sprint? It would have to be by mtyaka and/or antoviaque, I don't think I'll have time. 2012-03-15 13:42:23+0000 <arbrandes> blanchard_, okeydoke 2012-03-15 13:42:35+0000 <mtyaka> blanchard_: see you 2012-03-15 13:42:38+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard_: would be good if you could be there - need to discuss the point in my report about freelancing marketplace for YC 2012-03-15 13:42:48+0000 <antoviaque> any way to find good connectivity? 2012-03-15 13:43:06+0000 <arbrandes> If not, I vote for just fixing the test (basically, understanding why it's failing, and if it's important or not) 2012-03-15 13:43:56+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: yes, sorry about that - with hacker school & my semi-burn out I'm not helping at all lately 2012-03-15 13:44:12+0000 <antoviaque> yes, I vote for fixing the test too 2012-03-15 13:44:22+0000 <mtyaka> I agree 2012-03-15 13:44:38+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, no problem, just asking :) 2012-03-15 13:44:47+0000 <arbrandes> okeydoke, I'll create a bug for it then 2012-03-15 13:44:48+0000 <arbrandes> thanks 2012-03-15 13:44:57+0000 <antoviaque> I'll come back to rewrite the tables eventually - but probably after the end of HS 2012-03-15 13:45:04+0000 <mtyaka> I can try to fix it, that test has been teasing me long enough 2012-03-15 13:45:46+0000 <mtyaka> antoviaque: yeah, there's no hurry, it's not blocking us on anything, so it shouldn't be a priority 2012-03-15 13:46:16+0000 <antoviaque> ok - thanks, I feel a bit better about it :) 2012-03-15 13:46:16+0000 <arbrandes> agreed 2012-03-15 13:46:40+0000 <arbrandes> As long as the tables work, it's really low priority. 2012-03-15 13:46:48+0000 <antoviaque> okidok 2012-03-15 13:47:24+0000 <antoviaque> eve: next topic 2012-03-15 13:47:24+0000 <eve> antoviaque: The current topic is now "Feedback on the freelancing agency/marketplace concept" (from antoviaque) 2012-03-15 13:47:40+0000 <antoviaque> So - the idea is to apply to YC with something well-aligned with the type of projects they fund, to try to get their $170K this summer 2012-03-15 13:48:05+0000 <antoviaque> we talked a few times about using our expertise on working remotely/online teams, but never made up anything concrete of it 2012-03-15 13:48:37+0000 <antoviaque> I think this is one of our ideas that has the most potential to interest YC at this stage (Card Stories with good numbers to show could be one too, but I don't think we'll have time before the application deadline in two weeks) 2012-03-15 13:49:11+0000 <antoviaque> I made those mockups to try to detail the idea a bit: http://antoviaque.org/tmp/hp/ (you'll probably recognize some influence ;p ) 2012-03-15 13:49:28+0000 <antoviaque> The name sucks btw, if you think of a better one... 2012-03-15 13:49:29+0000 <arbrandes> I'm all for it. Does it pass the 5-minute-paul-graham-office-hours test? 2012-03-15 13:49:39+0000 * arbrandes looking 2012-03-15 13:49:41+0000 <antoviaque> I hope so : ) 2012-03-15 13:50:06+0000 <antoviaque> Would be useful to have some push-back on it 2012-03-15 13:50:27+0000 <arbrandes> "we help you throughout the project" 2012-03-15 13:50:39+0000 <antoviaque> Also, I'm thinking of making a smoke test of it, to try to validate or invalidate the idea before investing too much time on it 2012-03-15 13:50:42+0000 <arbrandes> How does that work? 2012-03-15 13:51:04+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: look at the "About" page : ) 2012-03-15 13:51:09+0000 <antoviaque> ah, the smoke test? 2012-03-15 13:51:32+0000 * arbrandes looking at the about page :) 2012-03-15 13:51:40+0000 <arbrandes> nope, the help thing 2012-03-15 13:51:50+0000 <antoviaque> smoke testing basically just a pedantic wqy to say "talk about it and get people to signup before doing anything :p 2012-03-15 13:52:01+0000 <antoviaque> ah - yes, details are on the about page 2012-03-15 13:52:18+0000 * antoviaque is going to add a "Read more" link on the home - thx for that 2012-03-15 13:52:37+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-15 13:52:39+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-15 13:54:07+0000 <arbrandes> I like the about page 2012-03-15 13:54:17+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2012-03-15 13:54:18+0000 <arbrandes> It answers most of my questions :) 2012-03-15 13:54:24+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, good : ) 2012-03-15 13:54:28+0000 <antoviaque> any push-back? 2012-03-15 13:54:30+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, let me play the devil's advocate 2012-03-15 13:54:36+0000 <antoviaque> yup, cool! 2012-03-15 13:54:40+0000 <mtyaka> It looks interesting 2012-03-15 13:54:46+0000 <arbrandes> How would we solve the chicken-egg problem? 2012-03-15 13:54:52+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka: :D 2012-03-15 13:55:01+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ahah, excellent question :) 2012-03-15 13:55:12+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I imagine we would list Farsides itself at first 2012-03-15 13:55:38+0000 <antoviaque> yep, we could use some of the help for CS - that doesn't scale, but allows to experiment 2012-03-15 13:56:14+0000 <arbrandes> Wait - there are two main roles here, right? Client and hacker 2012-03-15 13:56:27+0000 <arbrandes> Would companies be able to list themselves as "hacker"? 2012-03-15 13:56:30+0000 <antoviaque> also, the fact that it's not a website, but a service made manually (at least at the beginning) allows to be in the chicken and egg an agency faces rather than the one a marketplace website faces - which makes the problem somewhat smaller 2012-03-15 13:56:31+0000 <arbrandes> Or only clients? 2012-03-15 13:57:12+0000 <antoviaque> only clients I think, I think it's best if we just work with individuals/freelancers - although we would need to see if we can do that 2012-03-15 13:57:35+0000 <antoviaque> The chicken & egg problem remains though, even if it's smaller 2012-03-15 13:57:36+0000 <arbrandes> I was just checking elancer, they allow both 2012-03-15 13:57:47+0000 <arbrandes> (not saying it's better or not) 2012-03-15 13:58:02+0000 <antoviaque> yes, they are on a different model 2012-03-15 13:58:19+0000 <antoviaque> on vworker/elance/etc., it still makes sense to have companies 2012-03-15 13:58:29+0000 <antoviaque> since you need to do a lot of leg work to gget jobs 2012-03-15 13:58:36+0000 <arbrandes> So, I imagine you would have plenty of "eggs" from HS 2012-03-15 13:58:42+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2012-03-15 13:58:46+0000 <arbrandes> I have a few on my side 2012-03-15 13:58:52+0000 <arbrandes> friends, ex-coworkers, etc 2012-03-15 13:58:56+0000 <antoviaque> exactly 2012-03-15 13:59:11+0000 <antoviaque> I expect the trickier part would be to get the clients 2012-03-15 13:59:12+0000 <tartarugafeliz> me too 2012-03-15 13:59:12+0000 <arbrandes> That makes the order easy 2012-03-15 13:59:22+0000 <arbrandes> First, eggs -> then chickens 2012-03-15 13:59:35+0000 <antoviaque> but if we have good coders, we'll be interesting 2012-03-15 13:59:53+0000 <arbrandes> An easy way would be to let head-hunters be our chickens 2012-03-15 13:59:55+0000 <antoviaque> we can do what people usually do to get clients (ie, network, conventions, etc.) 2012-03-15 14:00:03+0000 <antoviaque> head-hunters? 2012-03-15 14:00:05+0000 <arbrandes> I don't know a lot of them, though. Actually, I don't think I know anybody, lol 2012-03-15 14:00:27+0000 <antoviaque> usually head hunters try to find employees, no? 2012-03-15 14:00:48+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I have a question 2012-03-15 14:00:50+0000 <arbrandes> Yes, but at least in Brazil it's common for them to also find temp workers 2012-03-15 14:00:55+0000 <tartarugafeliz> do the projects needs to be something big? 2012-03-15 14:01:42+0000 <tartarugafeliz> because on my case for instance, when I have websites to do, the clients wants me to take care of the code part, and they expect me to hire someone to work with me and solve everything and they pay - would it be possible to do something small as a website too? 2012-03-15 14:01:52+0000 <antoviaque> also, to get clients, we could try a bit of adds. With 10%, a $1000 job gives us $100, that leaves a lot of margin to get conversions (it's about 2K visits from StumbleUpon for example) 2012-03-15 14:02:12+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap I'm a huge fan of StumbleUpon 2012-03-15 14:02:25+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ah, I see - interesting then yep, although we would likely be competitors of head hunters too 2012-03-15 14:02:25+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, yes, that's the direct route - some investment capital required 2012-03-15 14:02:50+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, both competitors and helpers, depending on how the HH works 2012-03-15 14:03:01+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: nope, not necessarily. Although because of the focus on quality, it would likely be more expensive than elance & co 2012-03-15 14:03:21+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: yep, would be good to think about that 2012-03-15 14:03:24+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, most headhunters I've seen post jobs themselves on elancer/etc 2012-03-15 14:03:32+0000 <tartarugafeliz> so it wouldn't be worth it... 2012-03-15 14:03:35+0000 <antoviaque> I see, interesting 2012-03-15 14:03:36+0000 <tartarugafeliz> is that it? 2012-03-15 14:03:56+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: it could be - depends on the price of the good coders we find :) 2012-03-15 14:04:05+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ok 2012-03-15 14:04:41+0000 <antoviaque> we wouldn't set the price - just try to match coders with clients in the same price range - with a strong requirement on coder quality 2012-03-15 14:04:49+0000 <arbrandes> So, in a sentence: Hacker Trade does the foot work for both the client and hacker. 2012-03-15 14:04:50+0000 <arbrandes> From which end does the money come from? 2012-03-15 14:05:07+0000 <arbrandes> From the hacker or the client? What I mean is: 2012-03-15 14:05:22+0000 <arbrandes> There'll be some form of price posted, I imagine. 2012-03-15 14:05:24+0000 <antoviaque> yes, I see what you mean 2012-03-15 14:05:41+0000 <arbrandes> Like airbnb. 2012-03-15 14:05:46+0000 <antoviaque> since we ask for prices upfront, we can take it into account in the matchmaking 2012-03-15 14:06:11+0000 <arbrandes> "we ask for prices upfront": from the client? 2012-03-15 14:06:19+0000 <arbrandes> I imagine so 2012-03-15 14:06:20+0000 <antoviaque> ie if a coder wants $200/day, we need to find a client willing to pay $220/day 2012-03-15 14:06:26+0000 <antoviaque> from both 2012-03-15 14:06:33+0000 <antoviaque> (cf the application forms) 2012-03-15 14:06:50+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2012-03-15 14:06:52+0000 <arbrandes> Clients will want package prices for the project, no? 2012-03-15 14:06:59+0000 <arbrandes> Just a thought 2012-03-15 14:07:11+0000 <arbrandes> It's what I see on other freelancing sites 2012-03-15 14:07:34+0000 <antoviaque> yes, that's a point where I'm not sure yet - we may need to discuss with people to figure out the right approach 2012-03-15 14:07:48+0000 <arbrandes> But I just realized this doesn't work well with Scrum at all, heheheh 2012-03-15 14:07:52+0000 <antoviaque> because the way I see it, it's likely to be one of the reasons why elance-like websites are crappy 2012-03-15 14:07:56+0000 <arbrandes> It's a by-the-hour thing 2012-03-15 14:08:22+0000 <antoviaque> ie good coders don't blindly accept packages (read a lot of discussions about that on HN) 2012-03-15 14:08:29+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, precisely 2012-03-15 14:08:40+0000 <arbrandes> I like the per-hour thing on both sides 2012-03-15 14:08:46+0000 <arbrandes> Will attract more coders 2012-03-15 14:09:00+0000 <antoviaque> and coders who do end up dropping/lagging when it starts to exceed their initial estimate 2012-03-15 14:09:05+0000 <arbrandes> And will attract clients that realize closed packages are not the best way to go 2012-03-15 14:09:30+0000 <antoviaque> yup - I think this is an area where we could need to do a little education on behalf of the coders - ie show that it works well like this 2012-03-15 14:10:02+0000 <arbrandes> Will there be a review system? 2012-03-15 14:10:07+0000 <antoviaque> yes - that's the main target of the first phase - people who would like to hire good coders online, but who realized that what you find on elance/vworker is crap 2012-03-15 14:10:25+0000 <arbrandes> Or is this the "secret sauce"? 2012-03-15 14:10:34+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: probably 2012-03-15 14:10:37+0000 <arbrandes> Meaning - we guarantee good coders 2012-03-15 14:10:47+0000 <arbrandes> But don't show which ones are good 2012-03-15 14:10:48+0000 <arbrandes> We tell you 2012-03-15 14:11:00+0000 <antoviaque> what I'm thinking, is that we can start everything by hand (aka secret sauce) 2012-03-15 14:11:16+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, a real online agency, then 2012-03-15 14:11:21+0000 <arbrandes> Doesn't scale, though ;) 2012-03-15 14:11:22+0000 <antoviaque> this way we don't spend 6 months developing something without knowing what people really want 2012-03-15 14:11:26+0000 <antoviaque> yep : ) 2012-03-15 14:11:57+0000 <antoviaque> then we we see patterns, we build software to automate & scale 2012-03-15 14:12:00+0000 <antoviaque> *when 2012-03-15 14:12:32+0000 <arbrandes> I like it. 2012-03-15 14:13:18+0000 <antoviaque> in any case, I think the human touch can be good - one of the issues I often hear from coders is how much pain it is to find clients alone. Having a good presence in the projects we host would help with this, and also help with quality 2012-03-15 14:13:22+0000 <antoviaque> kewl :) 2012-03-15 14:13:25+0000 <arbrandes> We should test our "powers" ASAP, though, maybe even before the site goes online. 2012-03-15 14:13:38+0000 <antoviaque> how would you do that? 2012-03-15 14:13:44+0000 <arbrandes> Either by finding clients for ourselves, 2012-03-15 14:13:50+0000 <arbrandes> Or by finding hackers for a client. 2012-03-15 14:14:12+0000 <arbrandes> It's the human touch that matters, right? The site is only a tool. 2012-03-15 14:14:18+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2012-03-15 14:14:32+0000 <antoviaque> but how would you do that? 2012-03-15 14:14:53+0000 <arbrandes> Good question. The answer is also the answer to the chicken problem. Where do we find clients? :) 2012-03-15 14:14:56+0000 <antoviaque> I was thinking of using the website as a way to generate leads, but if you have a faster way, would be good yup 2012-03-15 14:15:36+0000 <arbrandes> Since Hacker Trade would also be a head-hunter, we could behave like head-hunters. 2012-03-15 14:16:12+0000 <arbrandes> Posting stuff on elance and company, scraping sites with resume listings (stackoverflow?). 2012-03-15 14:16:20+0000 <mtyaka> would Hacker Trade only be about matching customers to clients or also take part in project management? 2012-03-15 14:16:29+0000 <arbrandes> mtyaka, good question :) 2012-03-15 14:16:41+0000 <mtyaka> s/customers/hackers 2012-03-15 14:17:36+0000 <antoviaque> mtyaka: not sure exactly - I think it would be good to provide advices, and help stir things in the right way (ie insist on the daily meeting for example, the tasks/stories too, etc.) 2012-03-15 14:17:50+0000 <antoviaque> a bit like Ycombinator does with its startups, if that makes sense? 2012-03-15 14:18:07+0000 <antoviaque> Some light-handed guidance 2012-03-15 14:18:21+0000 <antoviaque> (with a fallback to the arbitrator role if things go awry, of course) 2012-03-15 14:19:10+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: could be good, but could be though too - think it would be less difficult than trying to post the website on HN? 2012-03-15 14:19:20+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, the problem with that is that it is very invasive of the development process, and would require heavier infrastructure. 2012-03-15 14:19:25+0000 <antoviaque> actually we can try both approaches 2012-03-15 14:19:55+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, it all depends on the level of commitment 2012-03-15 14:20:00+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, agreed on both approaches 2012-03-15 14:20:22+0000 <antoviaque> yep - but it's also something that almost nobody knows how to do well - we do know what makes remote work work well 2012-03-15 14:20:45+0000 <arbrandes> going back to infrastructure - we could also go the way of... what's it called ... the sweetheart of valley startups 2012-03-15 14:20:56+0000 <arbrandes> It's a paid redmine, I forget the name 2012-03-15 14:20:58+0000 <arbrandes> focal? 2012-03-15 14:20:59+0000 <arbrandes> wait 2012-03-15 14:21:07+0000 <antoviaque> basecamp? 2012-03-15 14:21:23+0000 <mtyaka> pivotal? 2012-03-15 14:21:36+0000 <arbrandes> pivotal 2012-03-15 14:21:37+0000 <arbrandes> bingo 2012-03-15 14:21:39+0000 <arbrandes> thanks mtyaka 2012-03-15 14:21:44+0000 <antoviaque> ahh, yep 2012-03-15 14:22:02+0000 <arbrandes> Something like a pivotal + the hackers themselves, hehehe 2012-03-15 14:22:06+0000 <arbrandes> just a though, of course 2012-03-15 14:22:11+0000 <arbrandes> would require heavier development 2012-03-15 14:22:19+0000 <arbrandes> (or not, if we just use redmine, heheheh) 2012-03-15 14:22:23+0000 <arbrandes> *thought 2012-03-15 14:22:34+0000 <antoviaque> yes - the issue is that is forces them to use our tool to track stuff - it's a problem I have with vworker&co personally, we have to use their stuff, it doesn't integrate well into our workflow 2012-03-15 14:22:58+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, agreed - but some companies actually like that 2012-03-15 14:23:10+0000 <arbrandes> especially startups, I would think 2012-03-15 14:23:18+0000 <antoviaque> again I'm not really sure about those - one way would be to discuss with the clients & hackers we get, and see what works for them 2012-03-15 14:23:25+0000 <antoviaque> yup, could be definitely 2012-03-15 14:23:39+0000 <antoviaque> if we automate, we'll need to build tools anyway 2012-03-15 14:23:43+0000 <arbrandes> We could have a nice API for logging time, or something, hehehe 2012-03-15 14:23:50+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, yep! 2012-03-15 14:24:23+0000 <arbrandes> I agree I don't like the "have to" part. Everything should be optional except the "paying through our system" part 2012-03-15 14:24:39+0000 <arbrandes> But having an ecosystem of tools would facilitate control 2012-03-15 14:24:49+0000 <antoviaque> or even integrate with existing free software - our advantage will be in the contacts we have 2012-03-15 14:25:22+0000 <antoviaque> yup, would be an interesting part to figure out 2012-03-15 14:25:22+0000 <arbrandes> Yup 2012-03-15 14:25:45+0000 <antoviaque> ah, another way to help with the chicken & egg problem 2012-03-15 14:26:33+0000 <antoviaque> If we give this a try, I'll discuss it with the guys at Hacker school - they might be interested to partner up 2012-03-15 14:26:51+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, great idea 2012-03-15 14:26:52+0000 <antoviaque> this is very close to their market, they have lots of contacts already 2012-03-15 14:27:15+0000 <antoviaque> and we could maybe try to get a recommendation for YC this way too - depends how they see it 2012-03-15 14:27:28+0000 <antoviaque> hope they won't see it as a threat though 2012-03-15 14:27:34+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap 2012-03-15 14:27:34+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, they will 2012-03-15 14:27:41+0000 <arbrandes> but not if you offer partnership 2012-03-15 14:27:41+0000 <tartarugafeliz> that's what I was writing⦠2012-03-15 14:28:06+0000 <arbrandes> i.e. - taking on the work they don't want 2012-03-15 14:28:11+0000 <antoviaque> yes, that's why I want to discuss this with them - better have them as friends than enemies, especially if we try YC with this 2012-03-15 14:28:56+0000 <antoviaque> YC companies are a bit like departments of a megacorp, so this could make sense yep, especially if they don't want to take care of freelances 2012-03-15 14:29:46+0000 <antoviaque> So, what do you think? do we try this? 2012-03-15 14:30:49+0000 <mtyaka> Initial investment doesn't look big, so I think it's worth a try. 2012-03-15 14:31:21+0000 <arbrandes> The biggest "thing" with it is the lack of automation, as I see it. People are used to getting immediate results online. I know I hate "we'll get back to you" type websites. Do you think people will get over it for this? 2012-03-15 14:32:58+0000 <antoviaque> yep, agreed for the non-immediateness 2012-03-15 14:33:51+0000 <antoviaque> The way I thought of addressing this (without having to develop a full marketplace website first) is to make it look a lot like YC, a bit like what Hackerschool did 2012-03-15 14:34:12+0000 <antoviaque> To draw on the "I should better get signed up now while it's still small!" feeling 2012-03-15 14:34:18+0000 <antoviaque> It got me for Hacker school ;p 2012-03-15 14:34:31+0000 <arbrandes> Anyway, I like the servicey aspect of the thing very much - just not sure on how to best execute it. 2012-03-15 14:34:37+0000 <arbrandes> Agreed 100% on the "unfinished" look 2012-03-15 14:34:50+0000 <arbrandes> i.e. Reddit, Hacker news, H/S 2012-03-15 14:35:03+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz is not going to like it, though, lol 2012-03-15 14:35:10+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahaha 2012-03-15 14:36:01+0000 <antoviaque> Well, it's not that much the unfinished look - more the "this is a selective project - I want to be one of the first chosen" 2012-03-15 14:36:33+0000 <antoviaque> thus the application process, like YC & HS 2012-03-15 14:36:34+0000 <arbrandes> Anyway, I'm up for helping where I can. However, I gotta plane to catch and still haven't packed my bags - gotta go! 2012-03-15 14:36:41+0000 <antoviaque> ahaha, ok! 2012-03-15 14:36:51+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for the push back arbrandes, gives plenty to think about 2012-03-15 14:37:12+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I'll be thinking about it a lot, too - I'll be back with more questions later, heheheh 2012-03-15 14:37:19+0000 <arbrandes> ok, I really gotta go 2012-03-15 14:37:20+0000 <antoviaque> okay, perfect : ) 2012-03-15 14:37:45+0000 <antoviaque> in the meantime I'll try to put the mockups as HTML for the smoke testing & showing it to HS 2012-03-15 14:37:57+0000 <arbrandes> cool, l8r! 2012-03-15 14:38:18+0000 <antoviaque> eve: end meeting 2012-03-15 14:38:19+0000 <eve> Meeting Ended 2012-03-15 14:38:19+0000 <eve> Minutes available at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/566074 2012-03-15 19:56:47+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2012-03-15 20:13:01+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-15 20:35:32+0000 J-Mad (J-Mad) is now online
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