Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2012-03-25.
2012-03-25 10:45:07+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-25 11:14:45+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-25 12:29:29+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2012-03-25 15:08:13+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-25 15:52:26+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-25 17:51:09+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2012-03-25 17:59:23+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2012-03-25 18:03:35+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-25 18:03:59+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-25 18:04:06+0000 <antoviaque> hey arbrandes :) 2012-03-25 18:04:11+0000 <arbrandes> hey dude 2012-03-25 18:04:15+0000 <arbrandes> how are we going to do this? 2012-03-25 18:04:16+0000 <arbrandes> any ideas? 2012-03-25 18:04:21+0000 <antoviaque> hehehe, yep : ) 2012-03-25 18:04:35+0000 <antoviaque> The idea is to skype 2012-03-25 18:04:51+0000 <antoviaque> and it's going to show you on my laptop 2012-03-25 18:05:06+0000 <antoviaque> then deborah will record on her laptop the video of me + you in a box :p 2012-03-25 18:05:11+0000 <antoviaque> what do you think? 2012-03-25 18:05:29+0000 <antoviaque> we can also do the other way round if you have a nice setting :p 2012-03-25 18:07:21+0000 <arbrandes> nope, not really a nice setting here - your idea sounds good, although it would be preferable to record both video streams and mix them, somehow, right? 2012-03-25 18:07:44+0000 <antoviaque> it's not really necessary, they don't care about editing 2012-03-25 18:08:02+0000 <tartarugafeliz> they don't like actually when is edited 2012-03-25 18:08:03+0000 <antoviaque> what's important is to be natural - this way we can both be interacting 2012-03-25 18:08:14+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: true 2012-03-25 18:08:31+0000 <antoviaque> ah, the other part is to get it right on the first shoot 2012-03-25 18:08:40+0000 <tartarugafeliz> its like a conversation adolfo... 2012-03-25 18:08:48+0000 <antoviaque> when we do it over several times, we end up repeating, which is not natural 2012-03-25 18:08:48+0000 <tartarugafeliz> it needs to be natural 2012-03-25 18:08:53+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap 2012-03-25 18:08:54+0000 <antoviaque> heheheh 2012-03-25 18:08:57+0000 <arbrandes> Yes, but it's actually going to be *less* natural like that, I think, especially for people looking on. 2012-03-25 18:09:03+0000 <tartarugafeliz> we have experience already on this one hahahaha 2012-03-25 18:09:11+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: why less natural? 2012-03-25 18:09:11+0000 <tartarugafeliz> why? 2012-03-25 18:09:14+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2012-03-25 18:09:16+0000 <arbrandes> agreed on the first take part, though 2012-03-25 18:09:17+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahaahhaha 2012-03-25 18:09:19+0000 * antoviaque double headed 2012-03-25 18:09:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> there were applicants in the past that did exactly the same thing as xav is proposing 2012-03-25 18:09:56+0000 <tartarugafeliz> YC likes this kind of thing 2012-03-25 18:10:11+0000 <arbrandes> Well, there don't seem to be any easy alternatives (only paid software, etc), so it's fine :) 2012-03-25 18:10:56+0000 <tartarugafeliz> do you have Xav's skype? 2012-03-25 18:11:01+0000 <tartarugafeliz> lets give it a try! :) 2012-03-25 18:11:03+0000 <antoviaque> ah, before getting started 2012-03-25 18:11:08+0000 <arbrandes> Ok, what's the conversation going to be like? Anything to plan out beforehand? 2012-03-25 18:11:20+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I'm goiong t 2012-03-25 18:11:22+0000 <antoviaque> did you read the YC application? could give us a common angle 2012-03-25 18:11:30+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I'm going to ask a question and you guys go from there 2012-03-25 18:11:40+0000 <arbrandes> nope, haven't read it yet 2012-03-25 18:11:43+0000 * arbrandes opening it up 2012-03-25 18:11:56+0000 <antoviaque> also would be good to (re) watch the videos on http://ycombinator.com/video.html 2012-03-25 18:12:03+0000 <antoviaque> then I think the main thing is to be natural 2012-03-25 18:12:11+0000 <antoviaque> to not prescript it 2012-03-25 18:12:28+0000 <antoviaque> ie like if we were being interviewed by the TV or something, and had only one shot :p 2012-03-25 18:12:46+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: you give the leading question? 2012-03-25 18:12:50+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes 2012-03-25 18:12:55+0000 <antoviaque> ah also - 1 minute is very short 2012-03-25 18:13:05+0000 <antoviaque> and it's going to go well :p 2012-03-25 18:13:29+0000 <arbrandes> I'm ok with natural :) but let's at least record a "testing 1 2 3" first: "If you're going to apply at all, you may as well apply with a video we can hear." 2012-03-25 18:14:08+0000 <arbrandes> Especially given the setup ;) 2012-03-25 18:14:46+0000 <arbrandes> Also, my mic quality hasn't be great lately, so it would be good to check first 2012-03-25 18:14:49+0000 <arbrandes> *been 2012-03-25 18:15:08+0000 <arbrandes> My skype name is "arbrandes" 2012-03-25 18:15:25+0000 <arbrandes> Hair combed, teeth brushed, ready to go ;) 2012-03-25 18:15:36+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: ahahaha, agreed on the sound test :p 2012-03-25 18:15:58+0000 <arbrandes> okeydoke 2012-03-25 18:16:56+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: have my skype? 2012-03-25 18:17:13+0000 <antoviaque> all good with the ycombinator application btw? 2012-03-25 18:17:23+0000 <antoviaque> (just to not disagree in the middle of the video :p) 2012-03-25 18:17:34+0000 <antoviaque> skype: xantoviaque 2012-03-25 18:18:27+0000 * arbrandes reading it 2012-03-25 18:19:16+0000 <antoviaque> ah ok sorry 2012-03-25 18:19:58+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: do I have time for a cigarette? 2012-03-25 18:20:04+0000 * antoviaque always nervous for videos 2012-03-25 18:20:17+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, sure! :) 2012-03-25 18:20:22+0000 * arbrandes a bit nervous too 2012-03-25 18:20:22+0000 <antoviaque> thanks :D 2012-03-25 18:20:26+0000 <arbrandes> too bad I don't smoke 2012-03-25 18:20:27+0000 <arbrandes> lol 2012-03-25 18:26:03+0000 * arbrandes done 2012-03-25 18:26:08+0000 <arbrandes> (reading, I mean) 2012-03-25 18:28:17+0000 <arbrandes> just a sec, gotta reboot 2012-03-25 18:30:48+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-25 18:31:03+0000 <antoviaque> re : ) 2012-03-25 18:32:10+0000 <arbrandes> ok, reade for sound test? 2012-03-25 18:32:17+0000 <antoviaque> yep : ) 2012-03-25 18:33:04+0000 <antoviaque> what's your skype id? 2012-03-25 18:33:35+0000 <arbrandes> tried calling you 2012-03-25 18:33:41+0000 <antoviaque> I can hear you : ) 2012-03-25 18:33:51+0000 <antoviaque> but I forgot that I don't have a microphone ;p 2012-03-25 18:33:54+0000 <antoviaque> I can see you yep! 2012-03-25 18:33:58+0000 <antoviaque> hmmm 2012-03-25 18:33:58+0000 <arbrandes> oh, ok, lol 2012-03-25 18:34:13+0000 <antoviaque> just a sec, going to try to find one 2012-03-25 18:34:35+0000 <antoviaque> see if you can lower a bit your microphone 2012-03-25 18:34:41+0000 <antoviaque> it's saturating a bit 2012-03-25 18:35:11+0000 <antoviaque> was better 2012-03-25 18:35:17+0000 <antoviaque> but went back up 2012-03-25 18:35:26+0000 <antoviaque> k 2012-03-25 18:35:51+0000 <antoviaque> still saturating 2012-03-25 18:35:55+0000 <antoviaque> too loud 2012-03-25 18:36:00+0000 <antoviaque> a bit better, but more 2012-03-25 18:36:11+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2012-03-25 18:36:15+0000 <antoviaque> lower a little bit 2012-03-25 18:36:25+0000 <antoviaque> good 2012-03-25 18:36:34+0000 <antoviaque> it's still a bit loud, but should be fine 2012-03-25 18:37:47+0000 <antoviaque> it's good :D 2012-03-25 18:37:59+0000 <antoviaque> wait, going to try to find the microphone 2012-03-25 18:38:56+0000 <antoviaque> ok, going to take another computer, brb 2012-03-25 19:33:36+0000 mtyaka (mtyaka) is now online 2012-03-25 20:55:58+0000 <tartarugafeliz> http://hackertrade.posterous.com/hacker-trade# 2012-03-25 20:56:05+0000 <tartarugafeliz> arbrandes: Ë 2012-03-25 20:56:12+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: \o/ 2012-03-25 20:56:18+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :D 2012-03-25 20:56:35+0000 <tartarugafeliz> dachary: watch the video loic!! :D 2012-03-25 20:56:43+0000 <antoviaque> raaaah 2012-03-25 20:56:46+0000 * antoviaque shy 2012-03-25 20:56:49+0000 <tartarugafeliz> mtyaka: you tooo 2012-03-25 20:56:53+0000 <antoviaque> nooooooo 2012-03-25 20:56:53+0000 * dachary watching 2012-03-25 20:56:57+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2012-03-25 20:57:02+0000 <antoviaque> damned 2012-03-25 20:57:12+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: not watching : gnash no work 2012-03-25 20:57:22+0000 * dachary downloading 2012-03-25 20:57:29+0000 <antoviaque> cool, saved by proprietary software! 2012-03-25 20:57:35+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahahahah 2012-03-25 20:57:36+0000 <antoviaque> who said they weren't useful? 2012-03-25 20:57:44+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2012-03-25 21:02:35+0000 <dachary> there is a download link :-) 2012-03-25 21:02:38+0000 <dachary> I watched it 2012-03-25 21:02:46+0000 <antoviaque> ahahaha damned 2012-03-25 21:03:00+0000 <antoviaque> what did you think? 2012-03-25 21:03:52+0000 <tartarugafeliz> would you use it dachary? if you had the chance to stop working in a job and only getting clients with us instead? 2012-03-25 21:03:58+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :D 2012-03-25 21:05:05+0000 <dachary> It's a good start. I think you should emphasize on the teaching part : you want to pass along the experience you have to others. You say you have the solution but it sounds like you want to keep it for yourself. Which is not what you want but it needs to be said. 2012-03-25 21:05:44+0000 <antoviaque> Yep, I kept in mind this - this shows more in the application 2012-03-25 21:05:57+0000 <antoviaque> btw I'm almost done with it, if you want I can send to you 2012-03-25 21:06:10+0000 <antoviaque> so you can check that this appears clearly enough : ) 2012-03-25 21:06:17+0000 <dachary> sure 2012-03-25 21:06:23+0000 <antoviaque> ok, cool! 2012-03-25 21:06:25+0000 * antoviaque sending 2012-03-25 21:06:37+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, tartarugafeliz: this one didn't go brilliantly. Don't know if I handled it well (maybe I should take a salesman course, or something :P): https://hackertrade.campfirenow.com/room/490879/transcript/2012/03/25 2012-03-25 21:07:06+0000 <tartarugafeliz> let me see :D 2012-03-25 21:07:15+0000 * antoviaque looking 2012-03-25 21:07:28+0000 <arbrandes> hey dachary ! :D 2012-03-25 21:07:37+0000 * arbrandes watching the video 2012-03-25 21:07:53+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: good day sir 2012-03-25 21:08:26+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, how's the cloud-making business? ;) 2012-03-25 21:09:31+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: it's tough but good. Let me create an account for you so you can see how it works. I'm excited to invite you to the cloud :-) 2012-03-25 21:09:47+0000 <arbrandes> Oooooo, cool! 2012-03-25 21:09:55+0000 <arbrandes> Can't wait :) 2012-03-25 21:10:29+0000 <tartarugafeliz> the wireframes are amazing 2012-03-25 21:10:34+0000 <tartarugafeliz> they're good with design! 2012-03-25 21:10:35+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :D 2012-03-25 21:11:34+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, I'm still reading, but I don't like the tone of the guy 2012-03-25 21:12:10+0000 <tartarugafeliz> he did looots of good questions 2012-03-25 21:13:05+0000 <antoviaque> yes, but he got the info from you first Adolfo, he reverted the selection 2012-03-25 21:13:18+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, tartarugafeliz: the video turned out pretty good, didn't it? Wouldn't have been possible without a great interviewer! 2012-03-25 21:13:25+0000 <antoviaque> hehe, agreed! 2012-03-25 21:13:40+0000 <arbrandes> (and editor, too - thanks tartarugafeliz :) 2012-03-25 21:13:44+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :P yeeeey 2012-03-25 21:13:52+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I helped! 2012-03-25 21:13:53+0000 <tartarugafeliz> :D 2012-03-25 21:14:05+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz, yup, the questions he asked were very pertinent, although the tone was definitely adversarial. I was scared. :P 2012-03-25 21:14:08+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I finished reading, arbrandes, it was really tough this guy 2012-03-25 21:14:19+0000 <tartarugafeliz> really business oriented 2012-03-25 21:14:31+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I think its just that we're not used to deal with this kind of mindset 2012-03-25 21:14:40+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz, you're probably right. 2012-03-25 21:14:42+0000 <tartarugafeliz> so it can be scary, but it should not be a problem for us 2012-03-25 21:15:04+0000 <tartarugafeliz> we just have to pass through that and be very direct to the point 2012-03-25 21:15:15+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and know what we're talking about 2012-03-25 21:15:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> because we're small now nobody completely believes this can work, cause they don't have any proves yet 2012-03-25 21:15:36+0000 <arbrandes> agreed. which is probably why I was so scared: i'm not all that sure what I'm talking about, yet :P 2012-03-25 21:15:42+0000 <tartarugafeliz> we need to prove we know what we're doing 2012-03-25 21:15:47+0000 <arbrandes> +1 ^ 2012-03-25 21:15:48+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahaahhaha 2012-03-25 21:15:51+0000 <tartarugafeliz> you do actually 2012-03-25 21:15:53+0000 <antoviaque> I think the important for the next ones is that they get a sense, before the interview starts, that they are interviewed 2012-03-25 21:15:57+0000 <tartarugafeliz> but YOU also need proof :) 2012-03-25 21:16:30+0000 <tartarugafeliz> but its normal that they have questions too 2012-03-25 21:16:33+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, agreed, too. I should probably start off differently, probably already in the invitation emails. 2012-03-25 21:16:35+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and its good 2012-03-25 21:16:36+0000 <arbrandes> Make it clear it's an interview. 2012-03-25 21:16:42+0000 <antoviaque> of course, but he should answer Adolfo's questions first 2012-03-25 21:17:01+0000 <antoviaque> To not give way to the technique this guy use, which is to read your mind to place his bet 2012-03-25 21:17:04+0000 <tartarugafeliz> he's defensive because he never did this and its a lot of money in question here 2012-03-25 21:17:17+0000 <tartarugafeliz> you have to see both sides 2012-03-25 21:17:18+0000 <arbrandes> In any case, it was a great example of an agency owner: http://lovethe88.com/ 2012-03-25 21:17:21+0000 <antoviaque> yep, but this can be done gracefully I think 2012-03-25 21:17:49+0000 <tartarugafeliz> what about it arbrandes? 2012-03-25 21:17:49+0000 <arbrandes> Which explains the good wireframes, business-oriented talk, etc. I think we can expect this from serious clients. 2012-03-25 21:17:58+0000 <tartarugafeliz> ahh ok agreed 2012-03-25 21:18:08+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and very business oriented mindset 2012-03-25 21:18:14+0000 <antoviaque> agreed 2012-03-25 21:18:14+0000 <tartarugafeliz> its different the way they communicate 2012-03-25 21:18:23+0000 <antoviaque> but they also need to be able to relate 2012-03-25 21:18:29+0000 <antoviaque> the effort should go both way 2012-03-25 21:18:49+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes, but that's what I'm saying, we just need a couple of good examples to change this 2012-03-25 21:18:55+0000 <antoviaque> we need to feel that a hacker would be comfortable with them 2012-03-25 21:19:24+0000 <tartarugafeliz> true - but I think when the work starts and he sees good results from the coders this will be natura 2012-03-25 21:19:26+0000 <tartarugafeliz> l 2012-03-25 21:19:28+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, tartarugafeliz, I like the arguments both ways, hehehe... I agree with both of you simultaneously. I think people willing to spend money are going to be tougher, but we need to get them to play our game a little bit, too. 2012-03-25 21:19:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> unless the guy is really an asshole 2012-03-25 21:19:45+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yeap 2012-03-25 21:20:04+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: perfect conciliator, as always :p 2012-03-25 21:20:07+0000 <arbrandes> Which may come through, as tartarugafeliz put it very well, through real cases of how it works. 2012-03-25 21:20:09+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahaha 2012-03-25 21:20:19+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, not always, but sometimes I try, heheheh 2012-03-25 21:20:23+0000 <antoviaque> :D 2012-03-25 21:20:39+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and I think you handled it very well arbrandes 2012-03-25 21:20:53+0000 <antoviaque> btw - good rule of thumb "we don't give out numbers" 2012-03-25 21:21:00+0000 <antoviaque> people in business are used to it 2012-03-25 21:21:18+0000 <tartarugafeliz> all the questions were answered and the guy showed signs that it was too expensive for him, which can be good to know and focus on the ones that are on our level of expectations 2012-03-25 21:21:21+0000 <antoviaque> and until they are good we can probably hold people like him or journalists to it 2012-03-25 21:21:24+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz, thanks, I tried :) I was all sweating by the end, hahahah 2012-03-25 21:21:29+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yep agreed antoviaque 2012-03-25 21:21:38+0000 <tartarugafeliz> hahahahahah 2012-03-25 21:21:45+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, agreed, I knew it was a blunder the moment I put the numbers out :P 2012-03-25 21:21:56+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: yep, one more reason why it's good to not give numbers first - at least when they are below, we know it :) 2012-03-25 21:22:06+0000 <antoviaque> otherwise clients just disappear 2012-03-25 21:22:39+0000 * arbrandes needs to read some sales books :P 2012-03-25 21:23:22+0000 <tartarugafeliz> and arbrandes, if I may point here⦠do not insist when the guy says" he knows someone very good in NY" 2012-03-25 21:23:57+0000 <tartarugafeliz> he needs to feel that if he stays, its because he understood that he needs us as much as we need him 2012-03-25 21:24:08+0000 <arbrandes> tartarugafeliz, what do you mean? let me read it again, I don't remember the lines exactly 2012-03-25 21:24:21+0000 <antoviaque> but it's ok arbrandes - I think this guy is a good rule out 2012-03-25 21:25:05+0000 <tartarugafeliz> yes, it was just something I thought about if it happens again 2012-03-25 21:25:16+0000 <tartarugafeliz> so you don't have to feel you have to go through it 2012-03-25 21:25:45+0000 <antoviaque> yup - he's the one disqualifying himself : ) 2012-03-25 21:25:55+0000 <tartarugafeliz> exactly 2012-03-25 21:27:29+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: arbrandes you are in the same project on beta.enocloud.com ( farsides ) 2012-03-25 21:27:55+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, cool, checking it out now! 2012-03-25 21:27:56+0000 <dachary> the quotas are 2 machines 2 cpu 2 GB of RAM 200 G 2012-03-25 21:28:02+0000 <dachary> 2 public IPs 2012-03-25 21:28:07+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: kewwwwl 2012-03-25 21:29:14+0000 <dachary> we are preparing a program to host all free software projects at no fee forever. The only condition being that it is *only* made of free software. 2012-03-25 21:29:33+0000 <arbrandes> It's awesome, dachary 2012-03-25 21:29:57+0000 <arbrandes> It must have taken a *lot* of hard work to get it here 2012-03-25 21:30:26+0000 <antoviaque> woaaa 2012-03-25 21:30:35+0000 <antoviaque> that's really cool :D 2012-03-25 21:31:31+0000 <arbrandes> Congrats, it's amazing! And will the stack be open, too? ;P 2012-03-25 21:31:52+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: actually there is *no* lines of code written from us. Only bug fixes & packaging. 2012-03-25 21:32:25+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: what you see is 100% from http://qa.debian.org/[email protected] 2012-03-25 21:32:58+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: "Error: Unable to create container" & "Error Creating Volume" -- normal? 2012-03-25 21:33:08+0000 <dachary> so you can run it on your own hardware. Only at the moment it takes about one day to set it up. 2012-03-25 21:33:18+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: yes, volume quota are set to 0. 2012-03-25 21:33:23+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2012-03-25 21:33:27+0000 <dachary> but you don't need that for now. 2012-03-25 21:33:34+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, seriously? I had no idea the open stuff was already that far. Not to minimize your packaging/bug fixing efforts. I've worked for years doing just that. :) 2012-03-25 21:33:35+0000 <dachary> When you create an instance it comes with disk. 2012-03-25 21:34:21+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: it takes one full time person to keep it stable. Still early stages. 2012-03-25 21:34:35+0000 <dachary> it == the platform 2012-03-25 21:35:26+0000 <dachary> allocating IP is a little bizarre 2012-03-25 21:35:35+0000 <dachary> opening the firewall too 2012-03-25 21:35:44+0000 <dachary> overall is a little unusual 2012-03-25 21:35:47+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, I can imagine! Again, congrats, it looks fabulous. Is it open for "visitation", so to speak? I have a couple of friends who'd be very interested in this. 2012-03-25 21:36:47+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: yes, how do you allocate the ip? I'm trying to find out for 10 minutes :p 2012-03-25 21:37:15+0000 <dachary> beta.enocloud.com is only open for friends at the moment. Once the "free software is free hosting" program opens, I'd be happy to see it advertised ;-) 2012-03-25 21:37:22+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: security 2012-03-25 21:37:37+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: Access & Security 2012-03-25 21:37:41+0000 <antoviaque> yes, but clicking on "allocate ip" doesn't do anything 2012-03-25 21:37:48+0000 <dachary> oh 2012-03-25 21:38:00+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, cool, understood :) 2012-03-25 21:38:11+0000 * dachary checking 2012-03-25 21:38:27+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: try again please ? 2012-03-25 21:38:45+0000 <antoviaque> still nothing 2012-03-25 21:39:22+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: thanks for spoting a bug.... 2012-03-25 21:39:23+0000 <dachary> ahahaha 2012-03-25 21:39:26+0000 <antoviaque> :p 2012-03-25 21:39:34+0000 <dachary> I'm trying to release an IP and nothing happens 2012-03-25 21:39:41+0000 <antoviaque> that's what it's for right - glad I found a way to help :p 2012-03-25 21:40:01+0000 <dachary> IP handing was already on the top of the list because it something takes a few minutes to get them 2012-03-25 21:40:27+0000 <antoviaque> yep - and it's weird that it's not next to the instances 2012-03-25 21:40:40+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: yes 2012-03-25 21:40:54+0000 <dachary> and once you allocate it, you need to associate it to a project 2012-03-25 21:41:04+0000 <dachary> and then you need to open the firewall 2012-03-25 21:41:07+0000 <antoviaque> yes, what is a project? 2012-03-25 21:41:26+0000 <dachary> a project is a client actually 2012-03-25 21:41:30+0000 <dachary> or tenant 2012-03-25 21:41:34+0000 <dachary> farsides is a project 2012-03-25 21:41:43+0000 <antoviaque> I see 2012-03-25 21:41:51+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: & arbrandes are users in this project / tenant 2012-03-25 21:42:37+0000 <antoviaque> ah now I have an IP on http://beta.enocloud.com/nova/instances_and_volumes/ 2012-03-25 21:42:47+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I'm thinking of installing it on top of the current cluster. The two could cooexist. 2012-03-25 21:42:48+0000 <antoviaque> but nothing in http://beta.enocloud.com/nova/access_and_security/ 2012-03-25 21:43:03+0000 <dachary> you have a private IP I assume 2012-03-25 21:43:07+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: cool, smooth migration? 2012-03-25 21:43:32+0000 <antoviaque> yes - I think it wasn't there earlier, but I may just have missed it 2012-03-25 21:43:41+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: rather having the two together because the "cloud" does not have a few important feautres that ganeti or proxmox provide 2012-03-25 21:43:43+0000 * antoviaque still a bit confused 2012-03-25 21:43:53+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: it *is* confusing 2012-03-25 21:44:06+0000 <dachary> such as DRBD disks 2012-03-25 21:45:07+0000 <dachary> still no IP here : http://beta.enocloud.com/nova/access_and_security/ ? antoviaque ? 2012-03-25 21:45:16+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: what do you mean by "on top"? Replace some stacks of the cluster by this? 2012-03-25 21:45:31+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I should have said : next to 2012-03-25 21:45:34+0000 <dachary> not "on top" 2012-03-25 21:45:46+0000 <antoviaque> ah, ok : ) 2012-03-25 21:45:58+0000 <antoviaque> would I be able to migrate our VMs there? 2012-03-25 21:46:14+0000 <antoviaque> (refresh taking a long time) 2012-03-25 21:46:28+0000 <antoviaque> no still no ip 2012-03-25 21:46:54+0000 <dachary> ok 2012-03-25 21:54:19+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: I'm re-reading the application, I think this guy came thinking we had filled one of his applications (cf misunderstanding in the beginning) 2012-03-25 21:55:12+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, no actually, sorry : ) 2012-03-25 21:59:18+0000 <antoviaque> "you have cheap coders and expensive coders? do the cheap do a bad job?" 2012-03-25 21:59:26+0000 <antoviaque> good question to have an answer to btw 2012-03-25 22:02:34+0000 <antoviaque> maybe something like "we only match you with good coders - however, even between coder who deliver, there are differences of seniority. The better ones are of course higher priced - which is why I'm asking about your budget" 2012-03-25 22:06:46+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: there are no cheap coders when it comes to result. All coders get paid roughly the same amount to do a given job. A coder paid 10 euros per hour will take longer than one paid 100 euros per hour. 2012-03-25 22:07:05+0000 <antoviaque> that's also a good angle : ) 2012-03-25 22:07:37+0000 <antoviaque> but with the drawback that it looks like the client has no control 2012-03-25 22:07:40+0000 <dachary> A good salesman can have a client pay 100 for something that's worth 1. Pay 1000 for a CD with Debian GNU/Linux when you can get one for 1 euro. 2012-03-25 22:08:12+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: how do you mean ? 2012-03-25 22:09:30+0000 <antoviaque> well if you're the client and being told this, it makes you think that if you don't pay the best, the project will just stretch in length 2012-03-25 22:09:48+0000 <antoviaque> while there are other options, like less perfectionism 2012-03-25 22:09:54+0000 <dachary> And that's actually what happens. 2012-03-25 22:10:21+0000 <antoviaque> ie ability to deliver != acquired skill 2012-03-25 22:10:40+0000 <dachary> This is regardless of the quality of the end result you're ready to accept. 2012-03-25 22:11:14+0000 <dachary> I agree that ability to deliver != acquired skill 2012-03-25 22:11:41+0000 <antoviaque> if you take the same coder, at 20 years old or 20 years later, the second is going to be more expensive for the same amount of work 2012-03-25 22:12:24+0000 <dachary> I don't think so because one person 20 years appart really are two different persons. 2012-03-25 22:12:33+0000 <antoviaque> no - but their price is :p 2012-03-25 22:12:35+0000 <dachary> I speak from experience ;-) 2012-03-25 22:12:58+0000 <dachary> yes, I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago. I'm quite sure about that. 2012-03-25 22:13:12+0000 <antoviaque> ah sorry misread 2012-03-25 22:13:43+0000 <dachary> what part ? 2012-03-25 22:13:49+0000 <antoviaque> they are different persons - but you see what I mean? when someone becomes in higher demand, he bills the same job higher 2012-03-25 22:14:13+0000 <antoviaque> desn't mean that he was doing a bad job before 2012-03-25 22:14:23+0000 <dachary> sure 2012-03-25 22:14:43+0000 <dachary> what I say stands for all coders at a given point in time 2012-03-25 22:14:54+0000 <dachary> prices vary over time 2012-03-25 22:16:20+0000 <dachary> in the end what really makes a difference is the ability of someone to deliver or not 2012-03-25 22:16:30+0000 <antoviaque> now that I think of this, it's a very good formuation of hypothesis - would be very interesting to look at data to confirm or contradict this 2012-03-25 22:16:51+0000 <antoviaque> do you have data to back it up? 2012-03-25 22:16:56+0000 <dachary> i'd be interested in data too 2012-03-25 22:16:57+0000 <dachary> nope 2012-03-25 22:17:06+0000 <dachary> just my guts and a little experience 2012-03-25 22:17:32+0000 * antoviaque wonders where we could find this data 2012-03-25 22:17:33+0000 <dachary> I've recently sub-contracted to a company and last week to a free lancer 2012-03-25 22:17:51+0000 <dachary> it confirms my rule of thumb once again 2012-03-25 22:20:22+0000 <antoviaque> at the minimum the ratio of price vs job done must be a curve - with really bad coders you never get any result 2012-03-25 22:22:12+0000 arbrandes (arbrandes) is now online 2012-03-25 22:24:40+0000 * arbrandes reads the backlog 2012-03-25 22:24:43+0000 <arbrandes> interesting discussion 2012-03-25 22:26:46+0000 <arbrandes> "there are no cheap coders when it comes to result" - my somewhat lesser experience tends to back this up, too. Although a really bad coder never delivers. 2012-03-25 22:29:07+0000 <dachary> arbrandes: I'm glad you confirm ;-) 2012-03-25 22:30:27+0000 <arbrandes> :) 2012-03-25 22:33:38+0000 * dachary reading hackertrade application 2012-03-25 22:35:59+0000 <dachary> YC/Hacker School philosophy => I would replace with a more precise wording as the YC founders are like to have a different view of their philosophy than you do 2012-03-25 22:36:07+0000 <antoviaque> arbrandes: if you think of any data that can back it up, that would make a great blog post for HN :) 2012-03-25 22:36:11+0000 <dachary> s/like/likely/ 2012-03-25 22:36:44+0000 <antoviaque> yep, extending a bit on it would help - going to do that 2012-03-25 22:38:23+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, the data I have is my limited hiring experience. In one specific case, the guy followed the curve almost to the letter: he was cheap in the beginning and took a long time to do things, but ended up real quick and expensive after a couple of years. :) 2012-03-25 22:39:03+0000 <arbrandes> The quick ones were expensive off the bat 2012-03-25 22:39:17+0000 <arbrandes> And I don't think I can remember a quick intern 2012-03-25 22:39:24+0000 <arbrandes> But again, this is all anecdotal 2012-03-25 22:39:30+0000 <dachary> We then grow in size and automate progressively to become a platform. => I would not go in this direction. What you're adocating is by nature something humans need to do. A bit of consulting, expertise, mediation. All the qualities you've learnt to master in farsides. 2012-03-25 22:39:59+0000 <antoviaque> How would you scale if not by automation? 2012-03-25 22:40:56+0000 <dachary> You don't scale. People who learnt how to do it get to pass their knowledge on. You scale by recruiting & teaching. 2012-03-25 22:41:12+0000 <dachary> don't scale => don't scale without hiring that is ;-) 2012-03-25 22:41:39+0000 <antoviaque> Ah, yep, this would be much more labor intensive than a vworker for the learning phase 2012-03-25 22:42:39+0000 <antoviaque> the automation is more on handling things *afterwards*, the tools used once people have learned 2012-03-25 22:42:49+0000 <antoviaque> maybe that part doesn't go through, I'll edit it 2012-03-25 22:44:16+0000 <dachary> Solved remote development contracting => I would add that you first went thru vWorker a number of years ago and learnt your way from there. Your experience as a manager in a company ( disney + bisounours ) shows how versatile you are. But it's a different project. Not sure how to play this one. 2012-03-25 22:45:00+0000 <antoviaque> good point yep for vworker 2012-03-25 22:45:09+0000 <dachary> ho, you mention that in the next paragraph 2012-03-25 22:45:12+0000 <dachary> sorry for the noise 2012-03-25 22:45:20+0000 <antoviaque> for disney I used it when I talked ... yep : ) 2012-03-25 22:48:24+0000 <dachary> What's new about what you're making? 2012-03-25 22:48:36+0000 <dachary> you need to talk about other outsourcing companies 2012-03-25 22:48:43+0000 <dachary> there are zillions of them 2012-03-25 22:49:03+0000 <dachary> some of them extremely good AND extremely expensive 2012-03-25 22:49:14+0000 <antoviaque> ah true 2012-03-25 22:49:43+0000 <dachary> others like http://noveogroup.com/ cheap & very good sales but results about the same as vWorkers 2012-03-25 22:50:12+0000 <antoviaque> the difference is that we are just a facilitator, not an agency - although we behave like one at the beginning 2012-03-25 22:50:21+0000 <antoviaque> but worth explaining yep 2012-03-25 22:50:25+0000 <dachary> can't remember the name of the company who sucked all the money out of diaspora 2012-03-25 22:50:29+0000 <dachary> they are *good* 2012-03-25 22:52:08+0000 <antoviaque> if you find it would be good for me to look at, didn't knew that diaspora worked like this 2012-03-25 22:52:12+0000 <dachary> Contracting agencies => outsourcing companies ? 2012-03-25 22:52:46+0000 <antoviaque> not exactly, although it's close 2012-03-25 22:52:54+0000 <dachary> http://diasporaproject.org/ 2012-03-25 22:53:02+0000 <dachary> told you they are good 2012-03-25 22:53:07+0000 <antoviaque> ahahahahaha 2012-03-25 22:54:01+0000 <dachary> ahahah 2012-03-25 22:54:05+0000 <dachary> http://blog.diasporafoundation.org/ 2012-03-25 22:54:13+0000 <dachary> they ran out of money it seems 2012-03-25 22:55:02+0000 <antoviaque> yep, you're right globally, I need to put more in front the fact that we help people to learn how to do it on their own, rather than internalizing the cost 2012-03-25 22:56:12+0000 <antoviaque> uhuh 2012-03-25 22:56:26+0000 <antoviaque> sad to hear, it was a nice fundraising example 2012-03-25 22:59:43+0000 <dachary> What's new about what you're making? 2012-03-25 22:59:58+0000 <dachary> You forgot to answer the question, unless I'm mistaken ;-) 2012-03-25 23:00:02+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: ^ 2012-03-25 23:00:23+0000 <antoviaque> really? 2012-03-25 23:00:29+0000 <antoviaque> damned 2012-03-25 23:01:59+0000 <antoviaque> true ahahah - I give all the things people have to do because we don't exist, and forget to explain how it works with us : ) 2012-03-25 23:02:03+0000 <antoviaque> thanks 2012-03-25 23:02:39+0000 <dachary> :-D 2012-03-25 23:03:44+0000 <antoviaque> btw did you read http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=3739622 ? if you did I'm curious if you think I missed some points 2012-03-25 23:06:19+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I think if you s/YC philosophy/ with something more specific you'll get rid of this problem. 2012-03-25 23:06:59+0000 <dachary> (first reply) 2012-03-25 23:07:10+0000 <dachary> it's too long a discussion for me to read at the moment 2012-03-25 23:07:25+0000 <antoviaque> np :) 2012-03-25 23:07:55+0000 <antoviaque> just in case you had read as the link was in the application, but I've given you a lot to read already : ) 2012-03-25 23:08:17+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for the good comments, helps a lot 2012-03-25 23:08:56+0000 <antoviaque> and yep, agreed - I rely too much on a shared conception of what YC/HS 2012-03-25 23:09:01+0000 <antoviaque> *is 2012-03-25 23:12:46+0000 <dachary> between January and March 2012 inclusive? 2012-03-25 23:12:54+0000 <dachary> dates are wrong ;-) 2012-03-25 23:16:16+0000 <antoviaque> yes, they don't change their questions, so it's from the last one :) 2012-03-25 23:16:28+0000 <antoviaque> I copy and paste in their form afterwards 2012-03-25 23:24:01+0000 <dachary> I think the biggest problem in the application is that it's not a technological project. It looks like another outsourcing company. 2012-03-25 23:24:02+0000 <arbrandes> antoviaque, I'm gonna give you some feedback tomorrow - though dachary seemed to have covered most of it already :) 2012-03-25 23:25:15+0000 <dachary> I know arbrandes & antoviaque will make a difference. but it's quite difficult to express this in the application. I don't see it at the moment and that's the biggest challenge. 2012-03-25 23:26:53+0000 <arbrandes> dachary, that's a tough one. I feel like what we'll do has a niche, but indeed, at the moment there's very little technology (if at all) being proposed. 2012-03-25 23:28:05+0000 <antoviaque> that part is tricky, but I'm not too scared about this - they funded Hackerschool (and YC) on this principle, and they seem to value the team first 2012-03-25 23:28:06+0000 <arbrandes> What I imagine would happen is that at some point (sooner rather than later), we'd improve the website for it to become more of an app - but I'm not sure how, yet 2012-03-25 23:28:22+0000 <antoviaque> yup, agreed 2012-03-25 23:30:44+0000 <arbrandes> We threw around some ideas, but what I think we're going for is, at this point, just trying to _find out_ what app to build. 2012-03-25 23:31:37+0000 <arbrandes> Dudes, gotta go eat, bbl 2012-03-25 23:31:52+0000 <antoviaque> exactly 2012-03-25 23:33:28+0000 <antoviaque> something important is that it had an echo with both coders and clients 2012-03-25 23:33:47+0000 <antoviaque> not sure if that shows well in the application, I'll need to re-read the whole thing 2012-03-25 23:34:36+0000 <antoviaque> but people got interested, which is not something the outsourcing companys are able to generate
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