Good morning everyone. On today's show, we have yet another comic bit from our good old friend, MJ, singing the praise of his own keyboard layout, while bashing everything else. This started my day with so much laughter that I couldn't help forwarding this to the group, Enjoy!!
> Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:24:56 +0600 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: 8 Messages - On Bangla Keyboard Layout > Standard [Shaptahik 2000 article promotes Munir > layout standard] > > Messages List > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Sajed Chowdhury, Shaptahik 2000 article promotes > Munir layout standard > 2. Farhan Husain, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 3. Mustafa Jabbar, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 4. Farhan Husain, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 5. Mustafa Jabbar, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 6. Farhan Husain, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 7. Mustafa Jabbar, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > 8. Farhan Husain, Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on > Bangla Computing and Ekushey February- replies > > > Offline Discussions: > ------------------- > Read the offline discussions in the time between > the message no. 1 and message > no. 2 below the online discussions. > > Note. Messages directly sent to the bdresearchers > are considered in the online > discussions. Offline discussions were continued > personally or in other online > forums. > > > Message 1 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Sajed Chowdhury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:24am > Subject: Shaptahik 2000 article promotes Munir > layout standard > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Shaptahik 2000 publishes article favouring adoption > of Munir layout standard. > Ref: > http://shaptahik2000.com/shonkha/2006/20060224/pr20060224.pdf > > > Message 2 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Farhan Husain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 10:23pm > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I think, we should reach a consensus to use Munir > keyboard layout as it is much more scientifically > designed than any others, specially bijoy. > > -- > Mohammad Farhan Husain > Software Engineer > Grameen Software > Grameen IT Park > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor) > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216 > Bangladesh > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mobile: +8800187565791 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com) > > > Message 3 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:06pm > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If you feel that Muneer is good for you who has > stopped you to use that? Dozens of solutions are > available. Even we provide solution for Muneer. You > might be happy to know that even we have developed > the Muineer Keybaord by introducing link with the > typewriter Keybaord. > > Whether it is better than Bijoy or worst is the > question to be decided by the users in general. If > 97% users are wrong and you are correct, its fine. > If we look at the market response probably we shall > be able to find the usage percentage of Bijoy, > Muneer or any other keyboard. > > As a developer of KBangla Software I firmly believe > that the user is the ultimate decision maker and > every user has the right to choose or even create > his/her own keyboard. I am ready to implement your > own keyboard. Even you can do yourself. > > We have kept all the options for everybody and is > willing to add even many new keyboards. But it is > the users who will finally say what they will use. > Keyboard is a personnal choice and do not confuse it > with encoding. We need a standaard encoding and some > organisation might create their own standard opf > keybaord. > > Our govt has already decided to use a standard > keybaord. They might tell you that if you want to > have a govt job, you are to use that keyboard. > > But a publisher might say that you will have to know > Muneer or Bijoy or lEKHONI. oN DEMAND FROM wEST > bENGAL presently we are working on Geetanjali, > Satyajit Keybaords of their choice. > > Unfortunately those who are not users of Bangla in > computers creates more confusion than the users. > > I do not like to go into the debate of what is good, > better and best. But definitely look at the market > force and still continue to develop those > technologies which are liked by people. > > I do not agree that we have not proceeded much in > Bangla Localisation. Probably we forget to look at > the Bangla Publications in paper (recent Boi Mela is > one plece where we should look), electronic and > digital media. I wish you will be practical and > respect others choice of their own. > > We might have some problems in using Bangla, but it > has not stopped us in doing things in Bangla. > > Mustafa Jabbar > > > Message 4 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Farhan Husain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:19pm > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Well, you are right that ultimately users will > choose layouts for them. But I was telling that > Munir layout is scientifically designed. Standard > scientific procedures (e.g. frequency of > occurrences) were followed while designing the Munir > layout. I don't know whether any standard procedure > was followed for Bijoy or not. > > -- > Mohammad Farhan Husain > Software Engineer > Grameen Software > Grameen IT Park > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor) > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216 > Bangladesh > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mobile: +8800187565791 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com) > > > Message 5 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:42pm > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Farhan, > > Thanks again. For more details on Bijoy, Muneer and > other keybaords, please read my book named Digital > Bangla, published by Agamee Prokashonee. You might > also see report of Keyboard Standardisation > Committee of BCC headed by Professor Monsur Musa. Dr > Jafar Iqbal and other scholars were in that > committee and I was not there. The committe was > formed to stope Bijoy to be the standard keyboard by > BSTI. But the committe not only accepted Bijoy but > also recognised as the most scientific one. > > It is true that Muneer Keyboard was devloped on > scientific considerations for typewriters. Please > recognise that a Computer is not a typewriter and > thus it has different science. > > It would not be possible for Bijoy to have 97% user > base without any scientific base. Do you think that > is possible? All Bijoy user are fool? > > We have developed it for Computer and not for > typewriter. My Bijoy keyboard will not work on > trypewriter and it has followed all the scientific > rules (as much as that is practicable) of Bangla and > thus has been so popular. > > The Keybaord Standardisation Commiitte has > expressedly said that Bijoy is the most widely used > and scientifically designed keyboard. They have > however suuggested some changes to Bijoy and > accepted 99.9% of Bijoy as a standard keybaord. > > How can you expect that in last eighteen years we > sat idle and did not even got the feedback of the > people and found if there is any fault in our > design. > > I should let you know a story. A company named saki > Computers imported 500 Muneer and 5000 Bijoy > Keybaords. Untill today the market has bought more > than a million Bijioy keybaord but those 500 Muneer > Keybaord could not be sold. Where does your science > stands? > > Mustafa Jabbar > > > Message 6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Farhan Husain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED], "A. B. M. Omar > Faruk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue Mar 7, 2006 0:07am > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Well, science and business are not the same. People > are not aware of science, it is the designer who > should follow scientific methods. It may be a > marketting gimmick which makes a product very > popular, science has nothing to do here. The success > of your product is no doubt very good but it does > not prove that your product is scientifically > superior. However, as the BSTI committee, of which > honorable Dr. Jaraf Iqbal was a member, approved > your layout as a scientific one than that ends the > debate. However, please don't confuse science and > business. > > -- > Mohammad Farhan Husain > Software Engineer > Grameen Software > Grameen IT Park > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor) > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216 > Bangladesh > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mobile: +8800187565791 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com) > > > Message 7 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED], "A. B. M. Omar > Faruk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue Mar 7, 2006 4:22am > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Mr. Fahim > > I am surprised that you have opted for a name to > give a certificate for a keyboard like Bijoy to be > scientific. You meant that as my keyboard has got a > certificate from a person like Dr. Zafar Iqbal, than > it is scientific. > > Otherwise not? With all the respects to Dr Zafar > Iqbal, I just like to mention here that I designed > the keyboard in 1988 and the keyboard has a very > strong science relating to Bangla Script and human > interface of typing. The formula I have used in my > keyboard is from the scientific nature of Bangla > language and that has made it possible to create > hundreds of characters with only two layers of > QWERTY Keyboard. > > I am also surprised that serving in a business > organisation you could not realise that that > science, which is not used by the people has very > little value for the human civilisations. > > When we were in the University, we were doing lots > of projects to have marks-Perhaps Grameen Spftware > can not afford to do that. > > We as a business company have never adopted any > gimmic ( I am sorry to hear a nasty word like this) > nor has got any patronage from anybody like you and > has been successful in getting the support of > millions of people and we are happy for that. > > In fact I do not care for anybody's certificate for > my keyboard to be scientific. In fact Dr Zafar > Iqbals committe had no way but to accept Bijoy as > no one has the ability to stop Bijoy under todays > circumstances. > > I have also understood that your comment on Muneer > Keyboard was based on assumption and there was no > scientific basis on that. > > When you make a comment, I wish you will justify > that with proper logic. > > As I have mentioned in my previous mail. I have > given my view about why I have not accepted Muneeer > as a Computer Keybaord for Bangla. > > Prof Munner Choudhury was my teacher and I respect > him like my father. But I have found that a > typewriter keyboard is unable to make the most > scientific keyboard for a language like Bangla. > > I shall again request you to read more on the > subject and than make a comment. > > Mustafa Jabbar > > > Message 8 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Farhan Husain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED], "A. B. M. Omar > Faruk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "shakhawat hossain" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue Mar 7, 2006 7:03am > Subject: Re: Shaptahik 2000 article on Bangla > Computing and Ekushey February- replies > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Mr. Mustafa Jabbar, > > Please find my reply below: > > On 3/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Dear Mr. Fahim > > > Please don't change my name. You have noticed from > my signature that I work in Grameen Software, you > should also have noticed that my name is not Fahim. > > I am surprised that you have opted for a name to > give a certificate for a > keyboard like Bijoy to be scientific. You meant > that as my keyboard has got a > certificate from a person like Dr. Zafar Iqbal, > than it is scientific. > Otherwise not? With all the respects to Dr Zafar > Iqbal, I just like to mention > here that I designed the keyboard in 1988 and > the keyboard has a very strong > science relating to Bangla Script and human > interface of typing. The formula I > have used in my keyboard is from the scientific > nature of Bangla language and > that has made it possible to create hundreds of > characters with only two layers > of QWERTY Keyboard. > > > Well, who are the members of the BSTI committee DOES > matter. A verdict of a committee formed by > unqualified members is of no use. Otherwise why did > you mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name in the > first place? He was not the head of the committee > yet you mentioned him. I mentioned him for the very > same reason. However, I am happy to know that your > keyboard layout went through scientific process. > > I am also surprised that serving in a business > organisation you could not > realise that that science, which is not used by > the people has very little > value for the human civilisations. > > > You are not right in this. Not all of science are > used by people, yet they have much value. There are > many things in science which is not used by human > for business purpose. The sole purpose of science is > not to be used by people. Science is all about > knowledge, be it used by people or not. > > When we were in the University, we were doing > lots of projects to have > marks-Perhaps Grameen Spftware can not afford to > do that. > > > I completely failed to grasp the meaning and intent > of this part. If you have meant that Grameen > Software, which is one of the top software companies > of Bangladesh, does not have lots of projects then > you are very wrong. I do not have proper > authorization to disclose business information of my > company to a public forum. I can only say that we > have lots of employees yet we have shortage of > manpower to do all our projects. I am a proud > employee of Grameen Software. However, I failed to > understand that how Grameen Software is related to a > mail in a public forum like bdresearchers, we were > talking about Bijoy keyboard layout. > > We as a business company have never adopted any > gimmic ( I am sorry to hear a > nasty word like this) nor has got any patronage > from anybody like you and has > been successful in getting the support of > millions of people and we are happy > for that. > > > Please read my mail again to see that I did not use > the word gimmick for you, I was just giving an > general example. > > In fact I do not care for anybody's certificate > for my keyboard to be > scientific. In fact Dr Zafar Iqbals committe had > no way but to accept Bijoy as > no one has the ability to stop Bijoy under > todays circumstances. > > > Your unstoppable sale of Bijoy is indeed a proof of > your business success. For business success you only > have to care your customers not any individual, no > doubt about that. I like to know that why did you > mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name if you do > not care him at all? > > I have also understood that your comment on > Muneer Keyboard was based on > assumption and there was no scientific basis on > that. > When you make a comment, I wish you will justify > that with proper logic. > > > I did not assume anything about Muneer keyboard > layout. I only told that it was developed using > scientific methods which is a fact. > > > As I have mentioned in my previous mail. I have > given my view about why I have > not accepted Muneeer as a Computer Keybaord for > Bangla. > Prof Munner Choudhury was my teacher and I > respect him like my father. But I > have found that a typewriter keyboard is unable > to make the most scientific > keyboard for a language like Bangla. > > > I like to say something here which I should have > said in my earlier mail. I do not understand why we > should consider the fact that this layout is for a > computer. We should talk about the keyboard here as > the term "Keyboard Layout" also suggests. A keyboard > and a typewritter has the same use, that is TYPING. > I think if a layout is ok for typewriter, it is ok > for a keyboard too. > > > I shall again request you to read more on the > subject and than make a comment. > Mustafa Jabbar > > > I welcome your suggestion to read more on the topic. > I will certainly try to do so and provide some > valuable input in this regard. > > Thanks, > > -- > Mohammad Farhan Husain > Software Engineer > Grameen Software > Grameen IT Park > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor) > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216 > Bangladesh > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mobile: +8800187565791 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Grameen Software (http://www.grameensoftware.com) > > > > > Offline Discussions > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Note. Offline discussions were continued personally > or in other online forums. > > > > On 3/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All. > > > I have read the mail of Mr. Pramanik. > > > Though he has not mentioned my name in his > article, even Mr. Sharif did > > > not mentioned my name too, it is clear to > identify meself as the target of > > > both the people. > > > I have replied to the article of 2000 and hope > to be printed in the next > > > week's 2000. > > > Please read that for better understanding. > > > However I should say something about Mr > Pramaniks view. Regarding Muneer > > > Keybaord, he and all of you should know that I > iintroduced Muneer Keybaord > > > in 1987 in Mac and in 1993 under Windows. Even > today anyone can find Muneer > > > Keyboard with Bijoy Classic Pro. I do not feel > that I am dead with Muneer > > > Keybaord. > > > In fact 97% people of Bangladesh, 80% people of > West Bengal use Bijoy > > > Keyboard and no one has been compelled to use > anyone. > > > Every user has the option to choose between > Muneeer, Bijoy, Jatioy and > > > National. > > > In fact if anyone has dropped Muneer Keyboard, > it is the govt who have > > > never considered to keep it in evaluation. > > > I have kept Muneer as one of the option and > shall continue to do that. > > > Regarding his other opinion about Bijoys to be > the seventh wonder- I wish > > > people will decide my contribution and its not > Pramanik alone who will give > > > verdict about my position in the ICT. > > > Thanks and regards > > > Mustafa Jabbar > > > > > > Quoting "M. M Pramanik " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Dear All, > > > I have come through all your mails regarding > dishonesty with Bangla > > > keyboard and font. I can also guess that person > who is dead against any > > kind > > > of keyboard except his layout. I appreciate him > for his keyboard but Munir > > > key board should have been given the respect > which he enjoying. In > > > Bangladesh all Typists of Type machines (which > now allmost obsolete) are > > > familiar with Munir key Board and when they > started to use computer, they > > > had to use another keyboard. It was not justice. > > > > > > The man who is dead against Munir KB, once > expressed himself as the > > > father/pioneer of Computer in Bangladesh and he > was also dead against all > > > academic people (BUET, BITs, DU, RU etc.) who > studies Programming or basic > > > side of computing. That person advocated for > multimedia education but he > > > could not realise that those academics or > students were involved in > > > education by which they could make his > multimedia softwares. He was only > > end > > > user. He thought that his software (bangla) was > the seventh wonder of the > > > world !!!! > > > > > > M. Pramanik > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Dear Mr.rahman, > > > I agree very much with you that as Bangali,we > are more emotional than > > > practical(myself not an exception).Thats why we > have not been able to > > > progress much on Bangla localization. > > > > > > Let us hope some one /group with merit come > forward in the feild. > > > Regards > > > > > > MMHAQ > > > > > > *Sayeed Rahman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > > > > > When Ekushey February comes every year we become > so emotional after > > > few days we forget everything. But in reality > we should talk about > > > how much we achieved on Bangla Localization: > > > > > > Still we are confused about Standard Bangla key > board layout > > > Not much work done by our Bangla Academy or > Bangladesh Computer Council > > > http://www.bccbd.org/ on this area BCC suppose > to be is an autonomous body > > > under the Ministry of Science and Information & > Communication Technology, > > > Government of Bangladesh for encouraging and > providing support for ICT > > > related activities in Bangladesh Recently > Bangladesh Computer Council > > came > > > up with Bangladesh Standard for Bengali > Keyboard, Keyboard Bengali Keyboard > > > Layout is these going to work? > > > Is this BCC truly an autonomous body? How it's > Director post and manpower > > > were selected on the basis of merit or > connection? > > > Do we have any Standard Policy regarding our > Govt web site design layout? > > > How many BD Govt Web site are today in Bangla? > > > What our Private and Public Universities (CSE > Dept) are doing for Bangla > > > Localization? > > > > > > Hope some one will answer my questions before > the Ekushey February emotion > > > fades away! > > > > > > What's good for Bangladesh is good for BANGLA > IT. Serving yours need to > > > know. > > > > > > > > > Sayeed Rahman > > > Founder BANGLA IT > > > http://www.banglait.org > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------Shaptahik > > > 2000 article on Bangla Computing > > > > > > > http://www.shaptahik2000.com/shonkha/2006/20060224/pr20060224.pdf > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Comments on the article from Shaptahik2000 group > list > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Thanks for sharing with us a rather interesting > yet thought provoking > > > article written by Mr. Mohammad Reza Shareef in > a recent issue of the > > > Shaptahik on the controversy of Bangla key board > layout in Bangladesh. > > > The author elaborates the merits of Munir key > board layout and favors > > > its adoption over the others because of its ease > of use and wide spread > > > applications. The author also mentions about a > class of dishonest > > > businessmen in Bangladesh especially points out > throughout > > > the article about one particular dishonest who > it seems is the forefront > > > dead against the success of Munir key board and > its font layout, because he > > > himself developed and marketed one. Is it his > > > personal ego (I know the best; it is my way or > high way!) or Bangladeshi > > > corrupt politics? Those of us who live outside > Bangladesh > > > and do not have any first hand knowledge of the > Bangladeshi politics > > > of Bangla fonts , Bangla key boards etc., it > would be of very interest to > > > us to learn who is this dishonest businessman > behind the dirty Bangladeshi > > > politics of Bangla fonts and Bangla key boards. > Can the author identify > > him? > > > I have my suspicion! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Fahim AHMED Ph.D. > > > Senior Research Scientist > > > Product Portfolio Milk Quality & Animal Health > > > DeLaval Manufacturing > > > 64153-1296 Kansas City, MO, USA > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a blank mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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