On Mon, 16 May 2016 16:45:46 -0700, you wrote: >that is . .. it would cost us 4-5x as much to make our own BBB's . .
Economies of scale. Throwing in design time and debug time for free. Similar board (physically), cost of two layer board in prototype quantities is about 14 dollars, Xmega processor about 8, (22), cost of connectors 5 (27), graphics chip 9 dollars (optional, say 36), miscellaneous parts perhaps 15 dollars, total cost 51 dollars..... That, however, is in single quantity units, effectively.... Boards can be had for far less, roughly 2 dollars or so, processors in 100's quantity are less, etc.... I guess we could talk less than 30 dollars for parts, depending. The difference in such a design, is that while less capable, it's mine and I know where all the bodies are buried, and why.... So the BBB is (all things considered) reasonably enough priced.... Harvey > >On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 4:44 PM, William Hermans <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Also, while on the subject. It's kind of hard to understand how the rpi >> foundation can create their rpi line at so little cost. My buddy and I ( >> mostly my buddy ) priced out what it would cost to make a beaglebone, and >> for us, it would cost 4-5 as much as what they're sold for retail. >> >> Quite honestly, the first iteration of the rpi I found rather repugnant. >> But now owning an rpi3 I see it is really a good little board that has >> limited uses in the embedded arena( true embedded, not just small cheap >> systems connected to 3 GPIO's ) >> >> But see, the Raspberry PI3 has quad cores, a really good GPU( which is >> where is shines ) 1G memory, ethernet, 40 or so pins for GPIO . >> peripherals, wifi, and BLE all for $35 . . . Honestly I do not see them >> making any money except from their government, from loses. >> >> So even though I think the rpi3 is a really good deal, and a steal at >> $35USD, I still think the BBB is the better deal, even at a higher cost. >> For many situations. But how in the hell does the rpi foundation do it ? >> heh. >> >> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Gerald Coley <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I design systems like this all the time for our customers. They are nice >>> enough to give me a bigger budget and not worried about keeping it low cost >>> just to sell more boards. >>> >>> Gerald >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 6:34 PM, William Hermans <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> *The bottom line seems to be that the BBB was not designed for this* >>>>> * kind of situation or application, and making it fit this requires* >>>>> * additional resources of some sort. Now the question comes down to* >>>>> * cost, utility, percentage of applications needing this, elegance of* >>>>> * design, and whether or not the hardware platform can cooperate in >>>>> this* >>>>> * or whether or not it simply lives in its own world.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * Harvey* >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think the real bottom line is that the BBB *could* have been designed >>>> to do all this and more. At additional costs. As Gerald has stated many >>>> times on this group. Which I can completely understand. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Harvey White <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:45:14 -0700, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >You do not need anything connected to the beaglebone for any reason. >>>>> The >>>>> >beaglebone has an on die ADC that can detect if the AC mains is >>>>> powered or >>>>> >not. In which case, after a preset time period the Beaglebone could >>>>> shut >>>>> >its self down. >>>>> >>>>> True enough. The prevailing wisdom was going with an external device >>>>> having all the smarts about power failure, while the BBB was being >>>>> held up by batteries. >>>>> >>>>> The requirement that you propose is that the BBB have, somewhere, >>>>> access to power long enough to do a graceful shutdown. >>>>> >>>>> How this is done is left as an exercise for the student. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >Meanwhile, an external "device" can just switch off the input 5V to the >>>>> >beaglebone after a preset amount of time. Then once you have AC power >>>>> back, >>>>> >the "Device" simply turns the 5V back on. >>>>> >>>>> Yep, and with the same requirements of powering from either a battery, >>>>> a supercapacitor, or something more exotic. >>>>> >>>>> The bottom line seems to be that the BBB was not designed for this >>>>> kind of situation or application, and making it fit this requires >>>>> additional resources of some sort. Now the question comes down to >>>>> cost, utility, percentage of applications needing this, elegance of >>>>> design, and whether or not the hardware platform can cooperate in this >>>>> or whether or not it simply lives in its own world. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Harvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Harvey White <[email protected]> >>>>> >wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:35:54 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >Looks like nut been ported to Debian for the BBB. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >It and a smart UPS might be the easiest solution. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >I'm thinking along these lines, but haven't done anything with it >>>>> yet. >>>>> >> The >>>>> >> >nut client getting a signal over the network from my desktop is >>>>> kind of >>>>> >> >what I'm thinking. I've my BBW IOT app, router, and ISP interface >>>>> on >>>>> >> >a separate UPS that I want running as long as the battery lasts, >>>>> but a >>>>> >> >controlled shutdown of the BBW is something I'd like to add >>>>> eventually. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >The "shutdown if the power outage lasts longer than X" is pretty >>>>> easy, >>>>> >> >robust automatic start-up when the power returns might require a >>>>> smarter >>>>> >> >than the average UPS. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I'd say that you want one that does automatic battery tests as well. >>>>> >> The one that I knew of at one time was a sine wave inverter. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> To summarize the types of inverters, there are two schemes. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 1) keep a battery charged at all times. When power fails, detect the >>>>> >> loss of AC at the output. Start the inverter and switch that power >>>>> to >>>>> >> the output of the inverter. What happens is that power drops out for >>>>> >> the output with a power failure, and your equipment is supposed to >>>>> >> stay "up" for a certain amount of time (that the UPS takes to switch >>>>> >> on). Then the UPS takes up the load and life is good. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 2) keep a battery charged at all times. Power the inverter from the >>>>> >> battery at all times. When the power fails, the battery charger >>>>> >> simply shuts down. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The second one is the one I'd think you'd want to get. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> An opto isolator, driven by an AC bridge (or an AC style >>>>> optoisolator) >>>>> >> would give you a power failure indication within a half cycle. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Harvey >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >I'd be interested in success stories, but my experience with brand >>>>> name >>>>> >> >(APC) and off-brand UPS with desktop system is while they are >>>>> better than >>>>> >> >nothing, they aren't good at reporting battery issues and >>>>> ultimately I >>>>> >> end >>>>> >> >up with a power failure and "pull the plug" type shutdown because >>>>> the UPS >>>>> >> >batteries can't support the switch over. We get a lot of 0.5 - 15 >>>>> minute >>>>> >> >power failures from thunderstorms here, so I'm sure the USP has >>>>> saved me, >>>>> >> >but they are not foolproof. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >Ultimately I'm trying to sell the wife on a "whole house" natural >>>>> gas >>>>> >> >powered backup system so that a dumb UPS or battery with only a few >>>>> >> minutes >>>>> >> >run time to let the generator come on and switch over would be >>>>> needed. >>>>> >> >She was excited about it after Hurricane Ike, but now that its been >>>>> ~eight >>>>> >> >years, selective memory has her thinking we don't need it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>>>> >> --- >>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups >>>>> >> "BeagleBoard" group. >>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an >>>>> >> email to [email protected]. >>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> >> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/apfkjbtvsk9h94q0qvfpke40ofhbc7c22h%404ax.com >>>>> >> . >>>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "BeagleBoard" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/silkjbt8elht0qlo1536jduujmhaekcobc%404ax.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "BeagleBoard" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORr8pWh47wzyi-jd_4U13X%2BfEDBj_r9Cf6Ao205AjYrX%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORr8pWh47wzyi-jd_4U13X%2BfEDBj_r9Cf6Ao205AjYrX%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gerald >>> >>> [email protected] >>> http://beagleboard.org/ >>> [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "BeagleBoard" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CAHK_S%2BdzeQ3T_QDcThddEnaoVqzU9PiDCS1ncVFbd0qfsDyzXA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CAHK_S%2BdzeQ3T_QDcThddEnaoVqzU9PiDCS1ncVFbd0qfsDyzXA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/k5skjb1niek80qmcgbe97vbh9jsqjrndet%404ax.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
