Just reboot the matrix, probably turn out the same in any case -- Doug
> The recent digests that I am getting are quite interesting (bad google) > and I have a question. > > What I'd like to know is, is it possible to have a our history captured in > its entirety so that none of the future generations have to run around > (like Hari Seldon) because information from waaaay back is corrupt and not > take care of? > > Do you guys know of any existing sources that you can point me to? > > Is this under distributed systems or under compression algorithms? > > Any other two cents on this is welcome! > Sent from my BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:36:13 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Beowulf Digest, Vol 80, Issue 22 > > Send Beowulf mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Beowulf digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: how Google warps your brain (Bill Rankin) > 2. RE: how Google warps your brain (Douglas Eadline) > 3. RE: Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their Beowulf > (Hearns, John) > 4. Re: Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their Beowulf > (Ellis H. Wilson III) > 5. Re: Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their Beowulf > (Kilian CAVALOTTI) > 6. RE: Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their Beowulf > (Lux, Jim (337C)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:54:43 +0000 > From: Bill Rankin <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [Beowulf] how Google warps your brain > To: Beowulf Mailing List <[email protected]> > Cc: "Robert G. Brown" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Heading completely off-topic now, but the area of digital media and > long-term archival/retrieval is something that I find very interesting. > I'll leave it to Rob to somehow eventually tie this back into a discussion > of COTs technology and HPC. > > >> > It's interesting: I just got an iPad a few weeks ago, mostly as a >> > reader/web-browser device, and I've been reading a variety of >> > out-of-copyright works: H. Rider Haggard, Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain. >> Thank >> > you Gutenberg Project! >> >> It is awesome, isn't it? > > Amazon also carries many of the out-of-copyright works in their Kindle > store for $0 (and gives credit to Gutenburg to a small extent). It was > nice to be able to go pickup things like the Sherlock Holmes series, > Homer's Illiad and some of Einstein's works (which I don't pretend to > understand) and have them downloaded via 3G on Amazon's dime. > > I will say that because of this I tend to overlook their rather high > (IMHO) price on current digital content and have probably purchased more > e-books overall as a result. > > >> > And, since I am sitting/lying here with a very sore back from moving >> boxes >> > of books around this weekend looking for that book that I *know* is in >> there >> > somewhere, the prospect of some magic box that would scan all my books >> into >> > a format usable into eternity would be quite nice. I might even think >> that >> > a personal "print on demand" would be nice that could generate a >> cheap/quick >> > copy for reading in bed(yes, the iPad and Kindle, etc., are nice, but >> > there's affordances provided by the paper edition that is nice.. But I >> don't >> > need hardcover or, even, any cover..) > > There is just *something* about paper, isn't there? And while I don't > have a library to the extent of RGBs or others, I do like having some > books around (glancing at the two bookshelves in my office). On the other > hand, I still have boxes of books sitting around unopened since we moved > house 4-5 years ago. I certainly need a purge, lest I end up on one of > those "hoarding" shows that seem to be popular as of late. > > At some point, I have to ask myself if I really *need* to have a old > beat-up, falling apart copy of "Voyage of the Space Beagle" laying around. > > >> > (or, even better, a service that has scanned all the books for me, >> e.g. >> > Google, and that upon receiving some proof of ownership of the >> physical >> > book, lets me have an electronic copy of the same... I'd gladly pay >> some >> > nominal fee for such a thing, providing it wasn't for some horrible >> locked, >> > time limited format which depends on the original vendor being in >> business >> > 20 years from now. I also recognize the concern about how "once in >> digital >> > form, copying becomes very cheap" which I think is valid. > > A scanning service would be wonderful for a lot of the books I have, > mainly those I view as reference-type material. For current reference > material, Safari Books Online has a reasonable usage model that allows for > making hardcopy of their online content. Now if there was only a simple > way to transcribe the same content for download to my Kindle I would be > set (something beyond the OCR+PDF approach, which is awkward and > inconsistent). > > >> What a killer idea. Acceptable use, doggone it! I'd ship them books >> by the boxful in exchange for a movable (even DRM controlled) image, a >> la >> Ipod music. I just don't want to rebuy them, like I've now bought most >> of my music collection TWICE (vinyl and CD). > > [let's not get started about vinyl collections - that's a whole 'nother > set of unopened boxes] > > The problem is that many of the media houses are still waging an > underground war on Fair Use, despite the legal decisions handed down by > the courts. As an example, I recently had a email exchange with one of > the customer service people at a major network. I was trying to locate > additional interview footage from when my brother-in-law was on a certain > hour-long Sunday evening news show. This person informed me that I did > not have their "permission" to recorded the over-the-air broadcast of the > show and burn it on a DVD to give to my sister, so what I was doing was > not legal. > > This was news to me, since this usage model was clearly defined as > permissible by the Supreme Court many years ago in the Sony v. Universal > "Betamax Case". > > While the market for online music, video and written works have forced the > various publishers to acknowledge to the need to provide content in > digital form, to a great extent they had to be dragged kicking and > screaming into the 21st century. A lot of progress has been made but > there is still a lot of resistance towards efforts to open up availability > and access even further. > > > I would like see a service where I could take bins of old books to a used > book store and somehow get credits towards the purchase of e-books online. > I think that could break me of my paperback hoarding habit pretty > quickly. > > > -bill > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:59:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Douglas Eadline" <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [Beowulf] how Google warps your brain > To: "Hearns, John" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected], "Robert G. Brown" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > <Seinfeld> > Not that there is anything wrong with that. > </Seinfeld > > >> >> As usual, a highly insightful post from RGB. >> >> >> >>> a) Multiple copies. Passenger pigeons may be robust, but once the >> number of copies drops below a critical point, they are gone. E. Coli >> we will always have >>> with us (possibly in a constantly changing form) because there are so >> very many copies, so very widely spread. >> >> I probably shouldn't mention Wikileaks here... >> >>> >>> At the moment, the internet has if anything VASTLY INCREASED a, b and >> c >>> for every single document in the public domain that has been ported >> to, >>> e.g. Project Gutenberg. >>> >>> Right now, I'm sitting on a cache of "Saint" books, by Leslie >> Charteris >>> (who was a great favorite of mine growing up and still is). >>> >>> Nobody is going to reprint the Saint stories. They are a gay fantasy >>> from another time, >> >> Simon Templar? Gay? Cough. >> >> Next you will be telling me that there are gay undertones in Top Gun, >> the film with the sexiest astrophysicist ever. >> >> >>> might well last to the end of civilization. Replicate them a few >>> million times, PERPETUATE them from generation to generation by >>> renewing >>> the copies, and backing them up, and recopying them in formats where >>> they are still useful. >> >> The cloud backup providers will be keeping copies of data on >> geographically spread sites. >> However, we should at this stage be asking what are the mechanisms for >> cloud storage companies >> for >> *) living wills - what happens when the company goes bust >> >> *) what are the strategies for migrating the data onto new storage >> formats >> >> >>> >>> Or, to put it differently, suppose every single human on the planet >> had >>> access to the modern equivalent of Diophantus's Arithmetica on their >>> computer, their Kindle, their Ipad >> I believe that was the original intent for the Web. Still under >> development! >> >> >> The contents of this email are confidential and for the exclusive use of >> the intended recipient. If you receive this email in error you should >> not >> copy it, retransmit it, use it or disclose its contents but should >> return >> it to the sender immediately and delete your copy. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Beowulf mailing list, [email protected] sponsored by Penguin Computing >> To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit >> http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> > > > -- > Doug > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:16:47 +0100 > From: "Hearns, John" <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [Beowulf] Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their > Beowulf > To: "Ellis H. Wilson III" <[email protected]>, > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > > <68a57ccfd4005646957bd2d18e60667b12154...@milexchmb1.mil.tagmclarengroup.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> I don't think you could find a statement more orthogonal to the spirit >> of the Beowulf list than, "Please, please don't "roll your own" >> system..." Isn't Beowulfery about the drawing together of inexpensive >> components in an intelligent fashion suited just for your particular >> application while using standardized (and thereby cheap by the law of >> scale) hardware? I'm not suggesting Richard build his own NIC - but >> there is nothing wrong with using even a distribution of Linux not >> intended for HPC (so long as you're smart about it) and picking and >> choosing the software (queuing managers, tracers, etc) he finds works >> best. >> >> Also, I would argue if a company is selling you an HPC solution, it's >> either: >> 1. A true Beowulf in terms of using COTS hardware, in which case you >> are >> likely getting less than your money is worth or > > > Ellis, I am going to politely disagree with you - now there's a > surprise! > > I have worked as an engineer for two HPC companies - Clustervision and > Streamline. > My slogan phrase on this issue is "Any fool can go down PC World and buy > a bunch of PCs" > By that I mean that CPU is cheap these days, but all you will get is a > bunch of boxes > on your loading bay. As you say, and you are right, you then have the > option of installing > Linux plus a cluster management stack and getting a cluster up and > running. > > However, as regards price, I would say that actually you will be paying > very, very little premium > for getting a supported, tested and pre-assembled cluster from a vendor. > Academic margins are razor thin - the companies are not growing fat over > academic deals. > They also can get special pricing from Intel/AMD if the project can be > justified - probably ending > up at a price per box near to what you pay at PC World. > > Or take (say) rack top switches. Do you want to have a situation where > the company which supports your cluster > has switches sitting on a shelf, so when a switch fails someone (me!) is > sent out the next morning to deliver > a new switch in a box, cable it in and get you running? > Or do you want to deal direct with the returns department at $switch > vendor, or even (shudder) take the route > of using the same switches as the campus network - so you don't get to > choose on the basis of performance or > suitability, but just depend on the warm and fuzzies your campus IT > people have. > > > We then come to support - say you buy that heap of boxes from a Tier 1 - > say it is the same company your > campus IT folks have a campus wide deal with. You'll get the same type > of support you get for general > servers running Windows - and you'll deal with first line support staff > on the phone every time. > Me, I've been there, seen there, done it with tier 1 support like that. > As a for instance, HPC workloads tend to stress the RAM in a system, and > you get frequent ECC errors on > a young system as it is bedding in. Try phoning support every time a > light comes on, and get talked through > the "have you run XXX diagnostic", it soon gets wearing. > Before Tier 1 companies cry foul, of course both the above companies and > all other cluster companies integrate > Tier 1 servers - but that is a different scenario from getting boxes > delivered through your campus agreement with > $Tier1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The contents of this email are confidential and for the exclusive use of > the intended recipient. If you receive this email in error you should not > copy it, retransmit it, use it or disclose its contents but should return > it to the sender immediately and delete your copy. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:09:12 -0400 > From: "Ellis H. Wilson III" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Beowulf] Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their > Beowulf > To: "Hearns, John" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 10/26/10 04:16, Hearns, John wrote: >> I have worked as an engineer for two HPC companies - Clustervision and >> Streamline. >> My slogan phrase on this issue is "Any fool can go down PC World and buy >> a bunch of PCs" > > Well if you are buying PCs in bulk at retail pricing, you are a fool > anyway. Plus most PC World PCs won't have ECC RAM so I wasn't really > referring to those as few of us tolerate random bit flips. > >> However, as regards price, I would say that actually you will be paying >> very, very little premium >> for getting a supported, tested and pre-assembled cluster from a vendor. >> Academic margins are razor thin - the companies are not growing fat over >> academic deals. >> They also can get special pricing from Intel/AMD if the project can be >> justified - probably ending >> up at a price per box near to what you pay at PC World. > > Again, not comparing PC World to Tier 1 bulk purchases. I'm comparing > Tier 1 bulk purchases w/o an OS (so you can DIY) with specialized HPC > vendor purchases where you don't have to DIY. Even then, perhaps it > breaks even the first year if you get a very, very good deal from the > HPC vendor. However, to get the deal you are probably contracted into > four or five years of support and when considering HPC, involving more > humans are the fastest way to get a really inefficient and expensive > cluster. After the first year and up until the lifetime of the cluster > involving human support annually will add a large cost overhead you have > to account for at the beginning (and probably buy less hardware because > of which). > >> Or take (say) rack top switches. Do you want to have a situation where >> the company which supports your cluster >> has switches sitting on a shelf, so when a switch fails someone (me!) is >> sent out the next morning to deliver >> a new switch in a box, cable it in and get you running? > > That's probably a hell of a lot faster than waiting on a vendor to get > you a new switch through some RMA process. Plus you know the cabling is > done right :). > > Optimally IMHO, in university setups physical scientists create the need > for HPC. These types shouldn't (as Kilian mentions) need to inherit all > of the responsibilities and overheads of cluster management to use one > (or pay cluster vendors annually for support). They should simply walk > over to the CS department, find system guys (who would probably drool > over the potential of administering a reasonably sized cluster) and work > out an agreement where the physical science types can "just use it" and > the systems/CS guys administer it and can once in a while trace > workloads, test new load balancing mechanisms, try different kernel > settings for performance, etc. This way the physical scientists get > their work done on a well supported HPC system for no extra cash and > computer scientists get great, non-toy traces and workloads to further > their own research. Both parties win. > > Now in organizations that don't have a CS department I agree that HPC > vendors are the way to go. > > ellis > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:18:56 +0200 > From: Kilian CAVALOTTI <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Beowulf] Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their > Beowulf > To: "Ellis H. Wilson III" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi, > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Ellis H. Wilson III > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Also, I would argue if a company is selling you an HPC solution, it's >> either: >> 1. A true Beowulf in terms of using COTS hardware, in which case you are >> likely getting less than your money is worth or > > Well, depends on how you value your time and the required expertise to > put all those COTS and OSS pieces together to make them run smoothly > and efficiently. > Most scientists and HPC systems users are not professional sysadmins > (which is good, they have a job to do), and the value of trained, > experienced, skilled individuals who can put together a reliable and > useful HPC system is sometimes overlooked (ie. undervalued). > > I agree with your later statement, though: > >> I personally don't think the "market for cluster vendors" is [...] >> the Beowulf list. > > Cheers, > -- > Kilian > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:32:43 -0700 > From: "Lux, Jim (337C)" <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [Beowulf] Anybody using Redhat HPC Solution in their > Beowulf > To: "Ellis H. Wilson III" <[email protected]>, "Hearns, John" > <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <ece7a93bd093e1439c20020fbe87c47fedd29f9...@altphyembevsp20.res.ad.jpl> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >> >> Optimally IMHO, in university setups physical scientists create the need >> for HPC. These types shouldn't (as Kilian mentions) need to inherit all >> of the responsibilities and overheads of cluster management to use one >> (or pay cluster vendors annually for support). They should simply walk >> over to the CS department, find system guys (who would probably drool >> over the potential of administering a reasonably sized cluster) and work >> out an agreement where the physical science types can "just use it" and >> the systems/CS guys administer it and can once in a while trace >> workloads, test new load balancing mechanisms, try different kernel >> settings for performance, etc. This way the physical scientists get >> their work done on a well supported HPC system for no extra cash and >> computer scientists get great, non-toy traces and workloads to further >> their own research. Both parties win. >> > > > I don't know about this model. > This is like developing software on prototype hardware. The hardware guys > and gals keep wanting to change the hardware, and the software developers > complain that their software keeps breaking, or that the hardware is buggy > (and it is). > > The computational physics and computational biology guys get to work on > cool, nifty stuff to push their dissertation forward by using a hopefully > stable computational platform. > But I don't think the CS guys would drool over the possibility of > administering a cluster. The CS guys get to be sysadmin/maintenance > types...not very fun for them, and not the kind of work that would work > for their dissertation. > > Now, if the two groups were doing research on new computational methods > (what's the best way to simulate X) perhaps you'd get a collaboration. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Beowulf mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > > > End of Beowulf Digest, Vol 80, Issue 22 > *************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Beowulf mailing list, [email protected] sponsored by Penguin Computing > To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- Doug -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ Beowulf mailing list, [email protected] sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
