> From: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:06:06 CST > To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: BERNER-L digest 4108 > > > BERNER-L Digest 4108 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: Surprised?! - Hip and Elbow testing question > by Sharon Montville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 2) Rambling about hips > by Sharon Montville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 3) Re: Surprised?! - Hip and Elbow testing question > by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 4) Fragility of breed/Consultations > by "Lisa D Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 5) Histiocytomas > by "Lisa D Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 6) Re: Looking for vet > by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 7) Expectations of PPO's > by "ptackett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 8) Joining a club? > by Carol Bradfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 9) REMOVE > by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 10) Ray's Red Berner! > by "TML" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 11) Hip and Elbow Certifications > by "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 12) RE: Signature Calendar > by "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 13) More on Hips and other fun things > by "Mary-Ann Bowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 14) Werners > by "Mary-Ann Bowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 15) Re: Dysplasia - Nutrition & environmental factors. > by "Rusty C Wingate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 16) Re: Surprised?! - Hip and Elbow testing question > by "Rusty C Wingate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 17) BMD ad in Salt Lake paper > by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 18) Re: Escape artist > by "Susan Berlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 19) Re: Hip and Elbow Certifications > by "Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 20) some final thoughts on Flexi's > by [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 21) Tony Mora > by "Mary-Ann Bowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 22) Elbow Dysplasia incidence based on parental status > by "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 23) Thank you! > by "j gassert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 24) house training > by Terry & Cathy Bering <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 25) Re: BERNER-L digest 4106 Surprised - Hip & Elbow Testing > Question > by gayle gramstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > From: Sharon Montville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Friday, November 8, 2002 10:44 PM > To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Surprised?! - Hip and Elbow testing question > > Hi Marilynn, > > I think it would be *wonderful* if you had your > regular vet do OFA hip/elbow x-rays on Star. I do not > think it is necessary to go to the extra expense of > PennHIP. > > There is not much known in this country, about most of > the lines that the BARC pups come from. As a result, > we have puppy millers with their often low-quality > Eastern European pups, bragging that there is no Hip > or Elbow dysplasia in the lines - and as a result, it > is not necessary to screen the litter parents' > hips/elbows before breeding. Most of us on this list, > experienced and beginners alike, would probably have > some doubts about this claim... but we don't really > KNOW, do we? It would be great to have some data to > support our hunch. > > OFA is fine. PennHIP does not add much value, in this > case. One of the important reasons is that PennHIP > evaluations are not able to be verified online. OFA > evalutions CAN be easily verified online and if you > choose to release all results (including evidence of > dysplasia) that is a bonus to everyone. > > Another reason that PennHIP does not add as much value > is that Star is not going to be bred. Since tighter > hips are less likely to become dysplastic, it can make > sense for a breeder to select for tighter hips (in > addition to just being "normal") and track progress in > this regard. Sorry to say, I doubt Star's actual > breeder is actively trying to bred for tighter hips. > The main reason I would bother with PennHIP for a > non-breeding dog is if its parents have been > PennHIPPed and the breeder wants to track progress. > Another reason might be if a PPO were considering > purchasing a 4-month-old puppy... very loose hips at 4 > months can be a predictor of HD. So if, as a pet > owner, you want as close to a crystal ball as you can > get regarding HD, then PennHIP might be worth the > expense. > > And Marilynn, thank you so much for setting a trend > with Star and getting her hips and elbows evaluated > even though she is a "rescue" and a BARC rescue at > that! You are performing a service that could be more > valuable than we might assume. I also love it that > you were so careful about naming Star and registering > her - the thought you put into this is a major bonus > to those who want to research hips and elbows from > these lines. You are setting a standard that I wish > more *breeders* would follow and your unselfish > dedication to this breed is an example for all. THANK > YOU more than words can express... I hope Star's > hips and elbows turn out fine (even though that will > not provide me with the ammunition I need but I could > never wish HD/ED on ANY dog, just to make a point). > > Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > > From: Sharon Montville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Friday, November 8, 2002 11:18 PM > To: Berner-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Rambling about hips > > As a breeder who has access to one of the best > orthopedic vets around, I have not had to worry about > my pet owners panicking if the x-rays show signs of > dysplasia. My vet knows his stuff. He understands > why pet dogs without symptoms are x-rayed and even > provides multi-dog discounts to encourage litters > being x-rayed at once. > > It is so important that breeders know the "right" > vets. I realize that in some areas, the "right" vet > does not exist. But in many areas, if you are part of > the serious hobby breeding community, it is possible > to find a good vet although you may have to drive an > hour or so instead of going to the closest vet clinic. > Very few vets understand much about genetics; they > are mostly familiar with BYBs it seems. I wish that > Dr. Padgett's book was required reading in vet school. > > Of the pups I have placed all have had clear hips and > one has a unilateral grade 1 elbow (and one was never > x-rayed at all so I cannot claim 100% clear hips). > The pup with the ED is now 7 and she gets around fine > and never had surgery (altho she tore an ACL in an > accident and had surgery for that, and also had a mast > cell tumor completely removed when she was 3 - why is > it that in a basically healthy litter, the bad luck > has been concentrated on one dog?). > > Others have said it before - Don't operate on x-rays! > If the hips look bad on the x-ray, don't breed the > dog but if the dog isn't having any problems there is > no need to rush to surgery. This is particularly true > for a dog who is 2 years or older when the HD is > detected on the x-ray. > > In some cases, the most tragic thing about an HD > diagnosis is breeding dreams going down the > drain...the breeder suffers more than the dog. (I > don't mean to sound like I don't care about the dog - > I do - am just stating that this dog shows no > suffering as a result of the HD). Dogs that are > showing signs of pain and THEN are x-rayed and HD is > seen - that is a different story... HD can be so > severe that euthanasia is the only option. > > There are so many excuses for not evaluating the > orthopedics of full litters and quite frankly, I am > sick and tired of ALL of them. Yes, there ARE reasons > today for not trying to evaluate full litters... such > as being LAZY, CHEAP, IGNORANT...preferring to keep > one's head in the sand rather than dealing with > reality (keep in mind that full litter screening as a > general concept didn't really hit the radar screen > until the early 90's - and it is still a somewhat > progressive concept altho I wish it were standard > operating procedure). > > I was not able to get 100% of the pups I have placed, > x-rayed and I will always see it as a failing on my > part. I will always wonder. I have produced 12 pups * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MESSAGE EXCEEDED PERMITTED LENGTH * * * * message truncated * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
