Hi Satya,

Pls see below with [weiguo]. Further discussions are welcome.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: Satya Mohanty (satyamoh) [[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 17:40
To: Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); [email protected]
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm

Hi Weiguo,

I read your draft.

Your proposal introduces quite a bit of overhead as John has pointed out.
[weiguo]; More AD routes advertisements overhead is introduced,but i think it's 
not so much. I think the benefit deserves for the overhead. It can effectively 
reduce traffic disruption during transiet time.

It is indeed bringing the role of AD routes into the DF election which has been 
intentionally kept separate so far.
[weiguo]: Yes, AD routes are re-used for DF election handshaking process. As 
draft draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 points out, DF election on each 
multi-homed PE also should consider AD route, not just ES route.

As John points out, the AD routes will now be advertised ever so often, even to 
remote PEs  that do not host the same Ethernet Segment.
[weiguo]: Not so often, only in the DF election and re-election phase, one more 
copy of AD routes per PE are advertised.

The per ES AD route also carries all the Route-Targets of all the EVIs, so 
anytime you want to advertise it again, it will need to be advertised with all 
these Route-Targets.
It imposes quite a processing overhead as far as the extended communities are 
concerned.
[weiguo]: Only when VLAN configuration change, PE joins or leaves ESI and etc 
will trigger the DF election and re-election, in normal operating envionment, 
these events will not happen frequently.

By this proposed feedback mechanism, it is going to delay the DF election.
[weiguo]: Yes, to ensure that all PEs of one ESI take action consistently. If 
DF PE and non-DF PE take action independantly, there will be some time traffic 
disruption. Handshaking mechanism is common in native ethernet world, such as 
MSTP. EVPN access network belongs to native ethernet world, it needs a more 
accurate mechanism.

In section 3 of 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-handshaking-00 you mention a 
sequence number but it is not clear how you use it.
[weiguo]:  The seq number is generated at DF PE. When a PE is elected as DF PE, 
it should generate a seq number. Each handshaking message will use the seq 
number to ensure it is for same DF election process , it is used to avoid 
message interaction disorder.
Assuming PE1 is DF PE, it generates seq number 5, PE2 and PE3 use seq 5 to 
communicate with PE1. Before the handshaking negotication ends, another PE4 
joins same ESI, PE1 is still DF, so PE1 wants to start a new handshaking 
process, it needs to generate a new seq number 6 to avoid message interaction 
confusing. I think the seq number mechanism can enhance reliability. If you and 
the comunity experts have better mechanism, i can also change it.

How does the scheme work when the PE reboots ?
[weiguo]: When PE reboots,  the process:
1. Local ESI discovery
2.Multi-homed PE auto-discovery
3.When reception timer expires, DF election handshaking.
4. DF PE and non-DF PE take effect, and enters into stable state.

How will it remember the sequence number?
[weiguo]: Don't need remember the seq. When PE restarts, the seq is generated 
from the start. Normally a device reboot timer needs several min.

Its a bit uncooked in the draft.

Best,
--Satya

From: Haoweiguo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 8:38 PM
To: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, 
"[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm


Hi John,

 Firstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of current 
DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single new DF 
election draft,rather than in multiple separate drafts. If your draft can solve 
all these issues and stable, i have no question for its progressing. But if 
your draft have not solved all issues, i think it had better combine with other 
drafts to provide a comprehensive solution. I think the issues listed in 
draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-handshaking-00 is 
valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your new Hash algorithm for 
DF election is good, it only includes partial enhancements, maybe it still 
needs some time for consensus.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16
To: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm

Weiguo,

Your proposal introduces a control plane processing load that is O(#EVIs * PEs) 
per DF election and given that there can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks like a 
*substantial* load.  Furthermore,
you can’t  use the ES route to co-ordinate DF election because you would need 
to carry your new extended community for each EVI and they would not all fit.  
You also can’t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is processed by 
all PEs in the EVI.

I think that from a practical perspective the new DF election proposed in 
Satya’s draft is sufficiently stable that it renders your draft moot, even if 
it could be made to work.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: BESS [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM
To: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm


Hi Ali,

Thanks for your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introduces 
inter-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in this 
draft is to eliminate transiet Loop and traffic duplication. Current EVPN DF 
election mechanism already eliminated loop and traffic duplication by 
configuring long reception timer on each multi-homed PE, but up to reception 
timer traffic disruption issue still exist. EVPN for DCI is an important use 
case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be tolerated for 
service providers, it should be improved.

Also for accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE is 
also needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis message 
is introduced, only one new extended community is introduced, i think the 
process is comparatively simple than your following draft.



Current EVPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts 
about DF election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts in 
global view,  a single,comprehensive new DF election draft is hoped.



thanks.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: BESS [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] on behalf of 
Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm

FYI- First published July 4, 2011

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route/


-Ali
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