Aijun,

My review points covering sequence number and clarity of the overload flag are 
addressed in -31.

I have started a separate thread covering the desired default permit behavior 
to avoid further confusion in this last call thread.

-- Jeff


> On Mar 2, 2026, at 09:13, Aijun Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Robert:
>  
> I have uploaded the new version which adopt the suggestions from Jeff.
>  
> For your concerns, I think you may over worried the complex of “overload” bit.
> According to your suggestions, how about let the other reviewer, AD etc. to 
> comment on this issue, and seek their opinions later?
>  
> Let’s forward this document then?
>  
> Aijun 
>  
> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On 
> Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2026 9:20 PM
> To: Aijun Wang <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Jeffrey Haas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; BESS 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; idr <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Sue Hares <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Keyur Patel <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: [bess] Re: [Idr] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft-ietf-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-25 - 
> 1 Week WGLC onchanges (1/29/2026 to 1/5/2026)
>  
> Dear Aijun,
>  
>> When the BGP restart or router reload, should any ORF table be cleared,  and 
>> then the overall VPN Prefix Route control process happens from the beginning?
>  
> Nope. See when your ORF list is not empty (and it is not empty since filters 
> have been pushed to the peer before peer's restart) the peer will not be 
> sending you the routes which you would otherwise get with overload bit set to 
> 1 prior to restart. 
>  
> Reason being that the definition of overload VPN = 1 means in your document 
> not to send NEW routes (NEW meaning post matching ORF rule reception and 
> installation). 
>  
>  
>> If we rely on the soft restart feature to refresh the BGP route, all the BGP 
>> routes from the neighbor will be advertised again(although the matched 
>> offensive/overload” VPN routes will be filtered);
>  
> As Jeff pointed out that refresh message MUST always be sent anyway following 
> the ORF message. So in fact you do not need an extra operational action. 
>  
> However you do need a bit of  magic on both sides to keep sending and 
> accepting routes subject to ORF filtering with definition of "I STILL WANT 
> ALL THE MATCHING ROUTES PRIOR TO INSTALLING ON INBOUND AS WELL AS PUSHING ORF 
> FILTER" 
>  
> That to do correctly introduces timing components which we do not have in BGP 
> attached to each path and each filter. 
>  
> Thinking more it is actually completely unclear when would you even use 
> Overload bit = 1 ... as this requires you to predict the future. You do not 
> know if you will ever get new routes. 
>  
> A special case of this when you send RD=0 and Overload set to 1 would mean - 
> do not send me any new routes.
>  
> Also imagine a case when you push such filter then your peer receives a 
> withdraw ... Well it is matching the filter so will be naturally suppressed - 
> it leads to lot's of ugly scenarios in the network. I do not see in RFC5291 a 
> special case addressing this as the spec does not even allow filtering to be 
> applied on only NEW matching routes post filter reception. 
>  
>  
>> If we utilize the overload bit(equal to 0), the receiver of BGP VPN Prefix 
>> ORF need only withdraw the “matched offensive/overload”VPN routes.
>>  
>> We think the latter is more reasonable.
>  
> Not sure if I read the last two sentences correctly - but if you say that you 
> are ok with using standard ORF behaviour = meaning to remove all matching 
> routes = then we are all in sync. 
>  
> But that means that you really do not need to define the overload bit at all. 
> Moreover if you do so you also do not need Sequence ID. 
>  
> To summarize I strongly request to remove the Overload bit and therefore 
> ordering Sequence ID from your specification. That is my input here. How 
> chairs, shepherd, AD and next reviewers will handle and deal with it remains 
> to be seen. 
>  
> Cheers,
> Robert
>  
>  
>> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
>> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] 
>> On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2026 2:09 AM
>> To: Jeffrey Haas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Cc: Aijun Wang <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>; BESS <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>; idr <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; Sue 
>> Hares <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; Keyur Patel 
>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Subject: [bess] Re: [Idr] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft-ietf-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-25 - 
>> 1 Week WGLC onchanges (1/29/2026 to 1/5/2026)
>>  
>> Hi,
>>  
>> One more note in respect to your below comment: 
>>  
>> It is also possible, if not probable, for an implementation of the "don't 
>> send any more" overload behavior to track "was this in my rib-out already"?  
>> As long as the resultant match of re-running the ORF is still value 1 to not 
>> send any more, you simply use the prior announcement state - if your 
>> implementation can track such things.
>> 
>> If your implementation can't track such things (e.g., mine can), then your 
>> implementation probably cannot fully support value 1.
>>  
>> So in order to support overload bit with request to filter ONLY NEW MATCHING 
>> BEST PATHS your implementation after receiving ORF tracks was that best path 
>> already in my ADJ-RIB-OUT before I received ORF entry and if so I will 
>> continue to advertise it to the peer. 
>>  
>> How do you deal with BGP restart or router reload ? Suddenly history is 
>> gone, tracking is gone and you suppress advertisements as now everything is 
>> NEW to you ? Well sender still expects you to keep advertising what he had 
>> before ... Do you think it is cool to advertise different sets of routes 
>> (assuming input is identical) to a peer before and after BGP restart or box 
>> reload ?
>>  
>> In order to support the ORF semantics with apply filter to ONLY NEW BEST 
>> PATHS BGP would need to support origination timestamp, so should ORF have 
>> one as well. 
>>  
>> I think we are making a dangerous precedent here with this "overload bit" 
>> extension in BGP. 
>>  
>> Kind regards,
>> Robert
>>  
>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>  
>>>> > It is also important to observe here that the ultimate result of sending 
>>>> > overload bit = 0 with some match criteria can be accomplished today by 
>>>> > sending overload bit to 1 with the same match criteria and triggering 
>>>> > "clear bgp soft in" (request refresh). from the ORF sender side. That 
>>>> > means that adding "overload bit"  to the spec is redundant to the 
>>>> > currently built in protocol mechanism.
>>>> 
>>>> Not quite.
>>>> 
>>>> Recall that the ORF programming operation is finalized with the soft 
>>>> refresh - even if the implementation is permitted in the RFC to do a soft 
>>>> "diff" mode.
>>>> 
>>>> It is also possible, if not probable, for an implementation of the "don't 
>>>> send any more" overload behavior to track "was this in my rib-out 
>>>> already"?  As long as the resultant match of re-running the ORF is still 
>>>> value 1 to not send any more, you simply use the prior announcement state 
>>>> - if your implementation can track such things.
>>>> 
>>>> If your implementation can't track such things (e.g., mine can), then your 
>>>> implementation probably cannot fully support value 1.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Jeff
>>>  
>>> Not this side ... I am talking about BGP speaker which is a route receiver 
>>> side (ORF msg sender side). 
>>>  
>>> The semantics of clear soft in is pretty well defined and if my policy now 
>>> prohibits to receive some routes as defined in the filter I pushed to the 
>>> peer the expectations is that I will refresh my Adj Rib-In according to new 
>>> filters in place irrespective on what the peer will be blasting me with. 
>>>  
>>> If you are talking about the case that in spite of installing some filters 
>>> I now need to keep history on a per path basis and leak some paths which 
>>> were received and installed prior to applying the inbound filter to me this 
>>> means just pure mess. 
>>>  
>>> Cheers,
>>> Robert.

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