Ketan,

Thank you very much for the comments and the suggestions.
Please see below of the proposed resolutions marked by [Linda] and let us know 
if they are acceptable.

Thank you, Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Ketan Talaulikar via Datatracker <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2026 7:00 AM
To: The IESG <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; 
[email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Ketan Talaulikar's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-32: 
(with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Ketan Talaulikar has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-32: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to the authors and the WG for their work on this document.

I have a few high-level aspects in this document that I would like to discuss.

<discuss-1> The abstract of this document says:

   This document explores the complexities involved in managing large
   scale Software Defined WAN (SD-WAN) overlay networks, along with
   various SD-WAN scenarios. Its objective is to illustrate how a
   BGP-based control plane can effectively manage these overlay
   networks by distributing edge service reachability information,
   WAN port attributes, and underlay path details, thereby minimizing
   manual provisioning.

To my knowledge there are SD-WAN solutions from several vendors that are
widely deployed today. Some of them use IETF protocols for specific
functionalities while others use proprietary mechanisms (here I am not
referring to IPSec or TLS but routing protocols). This text (and a few
similar in the body of the document) gives the impression of comparison
between a BGP-based solution that is not fully specified (not even the
framework is specified) in this document against solutions deployed out
there.

As easy way to address this would be to rephrase such text to not make
claims or comparisons. Perhaps just plainly state how use of BGP can
potentially replace other proprietary mechanisms used in SD-WAN solution?
E.g., the first sentence is problematic since it can be read as existing
solutions have complexities that are solved by BGP without any supporting
evidence or evaluation of those other solutions.

[Linda] Very good point. How about the following change for the Abstract?
Old:
      Its objective is to illustrate how a BGP-based control plane can 
effectively manage these overlay networks...

New:
      Its objective is to illustrate how a BGP-based control plane can be used 
to manage these overlay networks...

Add the following sentence at the end of the Abstract:
      In such deployments, BGP can provide a standards-based mechanism for 
distributing information that may otherwise be exchanged using proprietary 
SD-WAN control-plane mechanisms.

<discuss-2> Introduction section says:

   This document captures the SD-WAN scenarios, control-plane
   behaviors, and forwarding considerations that motivate current and
   future IETF work on SD-WAN. Publishing this material as an RFC
   provides a stable, citable foundation for related protocol
   specifications and ensures a shared understanding of the problem
   space across the industry.

As mentioned in the previous point, there are multiple SD-WAN solutions
that have been developed by various vendors using IETF technologies
like BGP (but with proprietary extensions) or entirely proprietary
solutions. AFAIK, none of these solutions support interoperability between
SD-WAN gateways and controllers from different vendors. Please correct
me if I am wrong. So, I wonder where and how the standardization of SD-WAN
at the IETF is happening to enable such interoperability that is after all
the purpose of the IETF. The BGP extensions are but a small portion of what
an SD-WAN solution entails. Do the claims made in that text hold?

Why not just say "This document captures the SD-WAN scenarios, control-plane
behaviors, and forwarding considerations using BGP." or something like that?

[Linda] Thanks for the suggestion. We will take your suggestion, make the 
following wording change:
Old:
      This document captures the SD-WAN scenarios, control-plane behaviors, and 
forwarding considerations that motivate current and future IETF work on SD-WAN. 
Publishing this material as an RFC provides a stable, citable foundation for 
related protocol specifications and ensures a shared understanding of the 
problem space across the industry. Although BGP and IPsec are mature 
technologies, applying them to SD-WAN introduces challenges such as 
scalability, segmentation, and multi-homing. By documenting how these 
mechanisms are used in SD-WAN deployments, this document enables consistent 
interpretations and supports interoperability without defining new protocols.
New:
      This document captures SD-WAN scenarios, control-plane behaviors, and 
forwarding considerations when BGP is used as the SD-WAN overlay control plane. 
Publishing this material as an RFC provides a stable, citable foundation for 
related protocol specifications that use BGP for SD-WAN networks and helps 
establish a shared understanding of the problem space and assumptions described 
in this document. This document is informational and does not specify a 
complete SD-WAN solution.

<discuss-3> In continuation of the previous point. There is no SD-WAN WG that
is chartered today to study and undertake the work necessary for a standards
based open and interoperable SD-WAN solution. Without that in place, I do not
understand the value or benefit of publication of this document via the IETF
track. It could as well be via ISE?

[Linda] This document is limited to BGP usage for SD-WAN overlay control-plane 
scenarios; it is not intended to define a complete SD-WAN solution. The 
document has been discussed in BESS for several years and has reached BESS WG 
consensus. Moving it to the Independent Stream at this stage would disregard 
the WG reviews and consensus already achieved.
This document also serves an important role for the related IDR work. During 
the multi-year discussion of the SD-WAN Discovery draft, the IDR WG preferred 
to keep background material, scenarios, and usage context out of the 
protocol-extension draft and instead reference this SD-WAN usage document for 
that material.
There is precedent for BESS publishing Informational usage/applicability 
documents, such as RFC 8388 on EVPN usage and applicability and RFC 9469 on 
EVPN applicability to NVO3. Those documents describe usage of BGP-based 
technologies without defining an entire end-to-end solution.


<discuss-4> Section 3.1.5 says

   An SD-WAN edge must use a secure channel, such as TLS following
   BCP195[RFC9325] or Ipsec [RFC4301], to its designated RR for
   exchanging BGP UPDATE messages.

I assume that IPsec tunnels need to be setup between the edge and
the controller and this tunnel has IP addresses on both ends that are used
to setup a BGP Session over it - i.e., in tunnel mode per RFC4301 with both
AH and ESP. If so, please clarify. I am unable to find a similar IETF
specification for setting BGP over TLS tunnels. I don't think BCP195 covers
these aspects. Can you please clarify this use of TLS with an appropriate
reference?

[Linda] The intent is that the BGP session between the SD-WAN edge and the 
designated RR is carried over a protected transport. When IPsec is used, this 
means an IPsec-protected path between the edge and RR, typically using IPsec 
tunnel mode, with IP addresses at both ends used to establish the BGP TCP 
session over that protected path. We also agree that BCP195/RFC9325 gives 
general TLS/DTLS security recommendations and does not itself specify how to 
run BGP over TLS. Since there is no RFC that we should rely on here for 
BGP-over-TLS, we will remove the TLS example from this sentence and keep the 
requirement generic, with IPsec as the concrete example. Here is the wording 
change:

Old:
      An SD-WAN edge must use a secure channel, such as TLS following 
BCP195[RFC9325] or Ipsec [RFC4301], to its designated RR for exchanging BGP 
UPDATE messages.

New: Section 3.1.5
      An SD-WAN edge must exchange BGP UPDATE messages with its designated RR 
over a protected transport. For example, IPsec [RFC4301] can be used to protect 
the path between the SD-WAN edge and RR, with the BGP TCP session established 
over that protected path. Other mechanisms for protecting the edge-to-RR BGP 
session are outside the scope of this document.


Linda
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I support the DISCUSS position of Med.




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