> From: bill lam <[email protected]> > > On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > > From: "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > > I agree that if the names are saved in many places you have a mess. > > > > > > Let me agree, too. > > > > > > There is another reason why I never use PM to build standalone... > > > > > > I *do* value the Package Manager for maintaining projects!... > > > > > > Project files neatly describe what belongs to a project. What is... > > > > > > "Standalone scripts" though: the sooner those die, the better. Go... > > > > It is a little confusing: you advocate projects, but condemn stand-alone > > scripts. Aren't projects there to produce stand-alone scripts? > > I understand, the only true purpose of a project is concatenation of > > multiple files into one. > > I'm a little bit surprised to hear this from a seasoned J user. Did > you mean that during the entire process of developing J codes, PM is > not used, and the only time that you use PM is when building the final > script?
> From: <[email protected]> > > As I already wrote, I for one don't care about the "single-script" > feature, or the "nuke comments" feature. The things I still find > valuable enough to use/provide project files: > > - Project file provide a simple convention to list what > is used in which way in a project. I like that. A lot. > > - Automating "how the application is built" is really essential > for me. In my case, in can mean things like "run awk on a Actually, I never used PM. Concatenation is what I assumed it was for. Frankly, I am surprised you need a project to tell what the files are for (source, test, aux, etc.) I try to use a convenient naming convention so that the purpose of files is evident. So the File Open dialog works fine as an organizer, which is what I use in place of PM in J. Automating to "run awk" is rarely used but it can be equally done in a "build" J script or a shell script. Some IDEs are not productive enough, J PM is among them. My tool of choice for complex projects is often Total Commander with highly intuitive keyboard commands or well-designed mouse interactions. I miss it thoroughly on Linux and Mac. It is a sophisticated two-panel file browser, has command line, built-in (de-)acrhiver, extensible file systems, such as archives, FTP, ISO disks, even web sites, visual folder sync and file diff, separate shortcuts for View, Edit, Run selected item; Explorer extensions like SVN and context menu work the same way. I use it for more complex stuff like syncing versions, archiving, SVN, shell scripts etc. So in comparison with Total Commander, some IDEs can be slower rather than faster. I was proposing all those different side bar browsers and text navigation because, only if it is highly productive, does an IDE warrant effort to learn and use it. To continue with those features, here's a couple more. Keyboard shortcuts must be really thought through, so that the whole workflow and most of the features be accessible by keyboard. We discussed earlier the Find dialog, the use of Esc key and problems with Ctrl and Cmd on Mac. With those different side bar browsers, it would be good to have various actions available for selected items: - open in text tab -- for J scripts and optionally any other if user chooses - open in separate special internal editor -- for certain file types, e.g. double-clicking the project file (or project folder) opens a project editor, for CSV files it open CSV editor etc. - use native launcher -- for other non-associated file types, e.g. PDF opens Acrobat reader etc. It would be good to have a few reserved keys for common actions, e.g.: - F3: open in a separate viewer window - F4: open in text tab - Enter: launch default (internal or external) It would be fantastic and long due to have customizable cross-platform pop-menus, so that context-sensitive actions can be associated with different item types. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
