> IMO the new Sphinx-based solution presents too much of an initial > barrier to entry.
This may be true and first however, once the environment gets setup It is really easy especially if you are using a GUI SVN client like Smart SVN In order to look at this correctly you need to see the arguments from both sides. These can be found on the new manual [1]. One of the reasons for the wiki disaster Is that too many people would edit which resulted in some bad content and over redundant text. 1. https://www.blender.org/manual/about/migration.html On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Campbell Barton <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:22 PM, Sergey Sharybin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I will strongly suggest to ignore Phabricators Wiki for the following > > reasons: > > > > It was mentioned as a possible alternative. > > > - It is not nearly as comprehensive as Mediawiki > > - Editing policies in Phabricator are still quite limiting, meaning > > granting someone's editing role for Wiki would either mean we manually > > control this (which is same as current "Please mail us if you need Wiki > > access" bullshit), or we'll effectively allow everyone to edit any object > > in our tracker which is not acceptable. > > - There's no comprehensive anti-spam tools in Phabricator. > > - Search is kinda pathetic > > > > Only argument for the Phabricator's wiki i currently see is that you only > > need one developer account to do the code and documentation. The truth > is: > > _any_ current developer has a Wiki account, yet it does not help keeping > > documentation in an up-to- state. So the issue of out-of-date > documentation > > is clearly somewhere else. (and if it's really an account issue, we can > > teach wiki.b.o to login with dev.b.o accounts). > > > > Let me ask this question: why would we keep diverging documentation from > > one single place (which is wiki.b.o) to a multiple ones (currently it's > > b.o/manual, and also proposed move of developer's documentation somewhere > > else)? I don't see such a diverge making documentation any easier to find > > or any easier to maintain. > > > > We don't - and think using a wiki for developer docs is reasonable to > stick with. > > > I do see however bullshit happening on current wiki.b.o, all this > anti-spam > > things which are done in really lazy way. But that only means our wiki > > itself is to be changed. Truth here is, it's a _really_ old mediawiki > > install which is just getting rotten. We can not upgrade it easily > because > > of the tree navigation, which required hacks all over the code. As for > me, > > we should evaluate such proposal instead: > > > > The way we handle Wiki accounts is quite broken, > for a while I was getting mails from `wiki at blender dot org`, > and we got regular mails with people who wanted to just learn Blender, > where I'm not even sure they knew what the wiki account was for. > Sometimes their English was poor so it wasn't really clear why they > wanted access. > > > - Re-consider navigation in Wiki, avoid having hacks to try support > > navigation which was barely useful > > - Prepare fully fresh install of Wiki (new engine, new web server > settings > > optimized for today's standards and so on) > > - Install skin which we'll find acceptable (this is the most tedious > work, > > we'll need someone to work on the skin and it's not so simple for > Mediawiki > > i've heard) > > - Migrate the content to a new Wiki > > - Re-evaluate state of the documents in there, wipe out-of-date ones > > > > Benefits: > > > > - This keeps use of documentation the same as it always was > > - This does not scare actual editors with wither fully offline editing > > - Let's everyone (new developers, old develeoprs, non-developers) to have > > project/design proposals in there, which are then simple to move to an > > actual documentation/release notes > > - Keeps release notes, release cycle, ongoing projects, personal > > notes/design proposal/drafts in a single place. > > > > Simplified proposal: we can just ignore all history in existing Wiki and > > simply start a new one. Even with a default skin it will not be less > usable > > than default sphinx/phabricator wikis. > > > > In any case, we would _have_ to update wiki sooner than later, and it > will > > bring it back to an usable state. Now, please stop for a moment from all > > your "let's split stuff apart" proposal and outline _actual_ problems > which > > _can not_ be solved in a context of having fresh and working wiki.b.o, > what > > will be the benefits of that move and so on. > > +1 (and something we've discussed/agreed on informally). > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Campbell Barton <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi, here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net > >> #blendercoders. > >> > >> 1) Upcoming release > >> > >> So far things go smooth with 2.77rc1, reminder that release notes need > >> attention still. > >> > >> - Mike Erwin will do OpenGL release notes. > >> > >> > >> 2) Current projects > >> > >> - Developers confirm that after 2.77 we should *stop* focusing > >> on 2.7x and move attention to bigger 2.8x projects. > >> However discussion shows we still need more concrete planning. > >> > >> - UI team will start having its own meetings, > >> current plan is to hold after next developer meeting. > >> Will be announced on the bf-committers mailing list. > >> > >> - UI project has _many_ open tasks with discussion and no conclusion, > >> these tasks could use some decisions from UI design leads. > >> (or archive if theirs no clear outcome and nobody has time for them). > >> > >> > >> 3) Other Projects > >> > >> - Kevin Dietrich has begun work on the DwarfLabs Alembic patch, > >> plans to move development to a branch and update to support > >> import/export based on suggested changes in review. > >> https://developer.blender.org/D1783 > >> > >> - @Blendify proposes to migrate developer documentation to new system > >> (and help with the migration), > >> https://developer.blender.org/T47563 > >> > >> However others in meeting prefer further discussion > >> on mailing list before going ahead and making changes > >> (evaluate Phabricator's Wiki for developer docs for eg). > >> > >> -- > >> - Campbell > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > With best regards, Sergey Sharybin > > _______________________________________________ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > -- > - Campbell > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
