Hello all, If this weather doesn't break by mid march, I'm going to seriously seriously consider a spring break trip down to Northern Georgia to camp and ride a bike in warm weather..if anyone is interested in car pooling and doing same....lemme know..its great country to cycle...Dahlonega/Fort Mountain/Chatanooga/Rome area
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send Bikies mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: I'm NOT sick of the ICE! (Steve Goldstein) 2. Re: I'm So SICK of the ICE! (Mitchell Nussbaum) 3. Re: motorist sentenced (Mitchell Nussbaum) 4. RE: Bicycle Legislation: SB470 (Tim Wong) 5. Re: I'm So SICK of the ICE! (Martin Lund) 6. Re: motorist sentenced (Eric Westhagen) 7. Re: I'm So SICK of the ICE! (Michael Lemberger) 8. Phantom Plowman (Michael Rewey) 9. Re: RE: Bicycle Legislation: SB470 (Dar Ward) From: Steve Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] I'm NOT sick of the ICE! Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:40:12 -0600 To: bikies <[email protected]> I have a different approach. I just go into a bike store (usually YJ) and buy a studded tire. I don't remember what brand. I just ride on it and it works for a long time. I make a modest investment and then forget about it and just ride my bike. I'm on my the second year of my third studded tire for more than a decade of use. The first tire failed after 5 or so years --- the studs had worn down. Maybe it didn't have carbide studs and, if so, maybe one with carbide would have lasted longer. I don't care: five years of use is plenty long. I had to replace the second tire because of user-error: I didn't bother to correctly adjust my brake pads (because I was just riding my bike) and they eventually wore down the sidewall. When we were in the midst of soggie-gate, I kept coming back to the perspective that winter riding is really no big deal. Once you've figured out how to do it (like keep your hands and toes warm, not slip on ice, etc), you can just ride safely and comfortably. Loads of people figure out how to do many things at least as extreme --- racing in large packs on tight courses, riding off-road on technical trails, etc. And studs are part of what I've figured out for winter riding. They work and you don't have to make a fuss about it if you're not into techie stuff. Just buy one (I have success with only front studs) and ride on it. From: "Mitchell Nussbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] I'm So SICK of the ICE! Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:56 -0800 (PST) To: [email protected] Just out of idle curiosity --- Are there advantages to mild steel studs in some circumstances, or are they just cheaper? Martin Lund wrote: >>I'd avoid the Innova studded >> tires, as they >> have a mild steel stud that wears out very quickly. > > For what it's worth, This is my fourth winter on my > Innovas (daily commutes each year being 6 miles, 3 > miles, 14 miles, and 5 miles) and the studs are only > just now in need of replacement. These tires were > roughly half the cost of the Nokian model of the same > size/number of studs. It should also be noted that > Innova sells a stud replacement kit, which includes 20 > studs and a small tool and will run you about $12. > Additional studs available in increments of 20 will > run you about $6 to $8. The act of replacement isn't > exactly fun, but neither is it difficult. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies > > From: "Mitchell Nussbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] motorist sentenced Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) To: [email protected] I'm definitely in favor of rehabilitation. I think prisons should be operated for the purpose of reforming prisoners, wherever possible, and returning them to society once they are rehabilitated. I support parole (which has been abolished in Wisconsin, and not by liberals) and humane conditions in prison (instead of mediaeval abominations like Supermax, which was not a liberal idea). I hope the drunk driver, Sheila Burr, has access in prison to programs that will help her deal with addiction to alcohol (we liberals tend to like stuff like that, even though they cost taxpayers money). But overcoming alcoholism is very hard, and I would prefer not to have her on the streets until she has made sufficient progress. She already had one drunk driving conviction on her record, in 2002, when she ran over those bicyclists. But this is beside the point. I support rehabilitation and shorter sentences in general, but I object to focusing on the sentence in this particular crime. Americans have a custom of showing severe approval for seriously unacceptable behavior by sending the perpetrators to prison for long terms. I went to Google News again today, and found: --- a sentence of 11 years for bank fraud, misapplication of bank funds, money laundering, perjury, etc., leading to the collapse of a bank in Blanchardville (http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/273495) --- a sentence of 15 years for armed robbery of a convenience store in Plover (http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/WDH0101/802190497/1981) Granted, these are crimes against property, which must be protected at all costs. But getting *exremely* drunk and killing a bicyclist is not exactly a peccadilo. If this driver got a slap on the wrist while others, who didn't kill anybody, went to the slammer for long terms, what would that say about the value of bicyclists' lives in our society? From: "Tim Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Bikies] RE: Bicycle Legislation: SB470 CC: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:12 -0600 To: <[email protected]>,"Dar Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just out of curiosity, how did you select Brett Davis, a Republican in an arguably Democratic seat, whom the Dems have been trying to beat ever since he got elected, as the sponsor? "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."--Voltaire (1694-1778) Direct Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq $493,536,029,692 >>> Dar Ward 2/19/2008 2:49 PM >>> The hand cycle and the right turn signal parts were both part of a bill that the Department of Transportation developed and drafted in 2005 (I think) and the Bicycle Federation requested be introduced. The state legislator who was supposed to introduce it (I've forgotten his name now) put off introducing it until the session was over...and eventually announced that he was retiring. I then approached Brett Davis in 2006 and asked him to introduce it...he agreed and we were planning to do that in Spring 2007, but then I left BFW. I'm not sure how the legislation finally got altered and introduced (our version had a component that no longer is in the legislation and there is something new that wasn't in our version), but that where the legislation originated this time around. -Dar --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From: Martin Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] I'm So SICK of the ICE! CC: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:30:10 -0800 (PST) To: Mitchell Nussbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] No other advantages. You're just saving money -- and of course loosing a certain amount of durability/performance in the process. --- Mitchell Nussbaum wrote: > Just out of idle curiosity --- > > Are there advantages to mild steel studs in some > circumstances, or are > they just cheaper? > > Martin Lund wrote: > >>I'd avoid the Innova studded > >> tires, as they > >> have a mild steel stud that wears out very > quickly. > > > > For what it's worth, This is my fourth winter on > my > > Innovas (daily commutes each year being 6 miles, 3 > > miles, 14 miles, and 5 miles) and the studs are > only > > just now in need of replacement. These tires were > > roughly half the cost of the Nokian model of the > same > > size/number of studs. It should also be noted that > > Innova sells a stud replacement kit, which > includes 20 > > studs and a small tool and will run you about $12. > > Additional studs available in increments of 20 > will > > run you about $6 to $8. The act of replacement > isn't > > exactly fun, but neither is it difficult. > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From: Eric Westhagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] motorist sentenced CC: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:46:43 -0600 To: Mitchell Nussbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BikiesSubmissions <[email protected]> Dear Mitchell Nussbaum, The question of habitual behavior and rehabilitation is a difficult question. One solution might be the use of a leg device or some new law enforcement item which would assure that Mrs. Burr did not drive. Drinking is not illegal, but driving recklessly and drunk is. Maybe such devices could be used on every repeat offender of drunk driving. After all, tracking is used for criminal work release programs. Certainly Mrs. Burr had no intention that she would be killing people with her car. In that she is not like premeditated criminals against people or property. Equally dangerous on the roads are speeders who end up killing people. I would expect that ticketed speeders usually repeat the act of speeding. Our laws let another dangerous class of people endanger others on the roads. Those are people with occasionally occurring medical problems. People subject to epilepsy can drive. Some years ago, a women with a history of epilepsy and who had not had the mental capacity for standard public school education, had a seizure on the divided roads near Milwaukee. Her car jumped the median and killed a family heading North to Oshkosh when she had a seizure. There was no action against her at all. Possibly medical doctors should be made responsible when they see unstable health, much like they are made responsible when they recognize child abuse. Electronic control of dangerous drunks would be trouble and expense, but if the alternative would be perpetual prison, this could be an effective solution for both the public and for the offender. The offender might then be followed by some type of person much like a parole officer to monitor rehabilitation when or if that should occur. Eric Westhagen Mitchell Nussbaum wrote: > I'm definitely in favor of rehabilitation. I think prisons should be > operated for the purpose of reforming prisoners, wherever possible, and > returning them to society once they are rehabilitated. I support parole > (which has been abolished in Wisconsin, and not by liberals) and humane > conditions in prison (instead of mediaeval abominations like Supermax, > which was not a liberal idea). I hope the drunk driver, Sheila Burr, has > access in prison to programs that will help her deal with addiction to > alcohol (we liberals tend to like stuff like that, even though they cost > taxpayers money). But overcoming alcoholism is very hard, and I would > prefer not to have her on the streets until she has made sufficient > progress. She already had one drunk driving conviction on her record, in > 2002, when she ran over those bicyclists. > > But this is beside the point. I support rehabilitation and shorter > sentences in general, but I object to focusing on the sentence in this > particular crime. Americans have a custom of showing severe approval for > seriously unacceptable behavior by sending the perpetrators to prison for > long terms. I went to Google News again today, and found: > > --- a sentence of 11 years for bank fraud, misapplication of bank funds, > money laundering, perjury, etc., leading to the collapse of a bank in > Blanchardville (http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/273495) > --- a sentence of 15 years for armed robbery of a convenience store in > Plover > (http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/WDH0101/802190497/1981) > > Granted, these are crimes against property, which must be protected at all > costs. But getting *exremely* drunk and killing a bicyclist is not > exactly a peccadilo. If this driver got a slap on the wrist while others, > who didn't kill anybody, went to the slammer for long terms, what would > that say about the value of bicyclists' lives in our society? > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies From: Michael Lemberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] I'm So SICK of the ICE! Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:00:21 -0600 To: [email protected] On Feb 20, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Martin Lund wrote: >> I'd avoid the Innova studded tires, as they have a mild steel >> stud that wears out very quickly. > > For what it's worth, This is my fourth winter on my Innovas (daily > commutes each year being 6 miles, 3 miles, 14 miles, and 5 miles) > and the studs are only just now in need of replacement. These tires > were roughly half the cost of the Nokian model of the same size/ > number of studs. It should also be noted that Innova sells a stud > replacement kit, which includes 20 studs and a small tool and will > run you about $12. Additional studs available in increments of 20 > will run you about $6 to $8. The act of replacement isn't exactly > fun, but neither is it difficult. Glad to hear someone has had good luck with Innovas. This differs from what I've read on the Icebike list and from talking to the one other person I know who's used them, which is that for commuting they rarely last much more than a season if snow and ice coverage is light. I was thinking in particular of this article from a rider in Anchorage: The only reason I brought up the difference in stud material is that there is an order of magnitude difference in durability. The IRC Blizzard 112 studded tires (carbide studs) I've been commuting on for the last 5 or 6 winters have been replaced by Nokians only because the sidewall failed on one of the Blizzards. My commute is 14 miles round-trip, and even though the roads were pretty clear for the last 3 winters, the studs aren't visibly worn beyond being somewhat rounded over. Anyway, the point of this response is not to take a poke at Innova, a fine company that makes good products (the Surly Endomorph, for example.) Their studded tires work just fine if used exclusively on snow and ice, but are likely be a disappointment to commuters who spend any significant portion of their time on dry pavement. As for cost, are $30 tires that last 3 seasons a better deal than $60 that are likely to last 5 or more? Classic YMMV. Michael Lemberger Madison From: "Michael Rewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Bikies] Phantom Plowman Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:45:20 -0600 To: [email protected] A great article on our free plowman on the Cap Trail. http://www.madison.com/wsj/topstories/273502 From: Dar Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] RE: Bicycle Legislation: SB470 CC: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:28:25 -0800 (PST) To: Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Tim: When I was at BFW, we did our best to be non-partisan. As a 501c3 non-profit, BFW is, in fact, REQUIRED to be non-partisan. Davis was selected because he was very supportive of the EarthRider business when the owner went to visit him. He was enthusiastic about promoting bicycle tourism in his district and he contacted BFW on other issues, which nearly no other members of the state legislature did. In speaking with him, I'd say he was in the top 5 most enthusiastic supporters of bicycling that I've talked to in the state legislature. I didn't care if he was purple...he was pro-bike. Oh...I believe it was Ainsworth that was the original sponsor who bailed. He was selected because one of BFW's lobbyists at the time (we had three including me) had an "in" at his office and convinced him to do it...though, then he didn't do it. We just needed someone to introduce it. You are assuming that I, as an individual, and BFW as an organization, are supporters of the Democratic Party...or enemies of the Republican Party. As I've said, BFW can't have partisan politics...it has to focus on issues, not parties. And my politics was irrelevant in the situation. And...personal politics sometimes has to step aside when you work for an organization. I like to think that I never crossed my own personal moral boundaries at BFW (and, in fact, got in trouble on occasion for refusing to cross such boundaries...some may even argue that this is at least part of why I was terminated, but I can't speak to that because I was not given a reason for my termination). In our political system, you have to work with people from both parties. If you refuse to work with both parties, you can not accomplish anything. You, Tim, are free to feel differently, but I suspect that feeling that way won't lead you to work for a 501c3 nonprofit any time soon. -Dar Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just out of curiosity, how did you select Brett Davis, a Republican in an arguably Democratic seat, whom the Dems have been trying to beat ever since he got elected, as the sponsor? "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."--Voltaire (1694-1778) Direct Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq $493,536,029,692 >>> Dar Ward 2/19/2008 2:49 PM >>> The hand cycle and the right turn signal parts were both part of a bill that the Department of Transportation developed and drafted in 2005 (I think) and the Bicycle Federation requested be introduced. The state legislator who was supposed to introduce it (I've forgotten his name now) put off introducing it until the session was over...and eventually announced that he was retiring. I then approached Brett Davis in 2006 and asked him to introduce it...he agreed and we were planning to do that in Spring 2007, but then I left BFW. I'm not sure how the legislation finally got altered and introduced (our version had a component that no longer is in the legislation and there is something new that wasn't in our version), but that where the legislation originated this time around. -Dar --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now._______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://www.danenet.org/mailman/listinfo/bikies
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