-----Original Message-----
From: Barta, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:07 AM
To: Nelson, Larry
Cc: Jim Oeth (E-mail); Pamperin-Volk, Mary; Hoelker, Michael; Gust,
Jeffrey; Rampetsreiter, Michael
Subject: Seminole Interchange Signalization: [Bikies] Losing ground

Hi, Larry: Per below, WisDOT coordinated fully with the local Bike
Federation, and the layout meets curent design standards for bike
accommodations. Per Mary, it is worth someone's time to check the bike
lane width in case the striping did not match the plan.

Otherwise, lots of traffic through here, many drivers in a hurry, not
surprised by conflicts due to poor driving. But overall, would still
expect the road improvements also improved ability to bike through the

Please cc us when you reply to the e-mailer that started this string of
comments. Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamperin-Volk, Mary
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:09 AM
To: Barta, Larry
Subject: RE: [Bikies] Losing ground

I like Jim Oeth's response.  Only thing to add is to indicate what
manual he
is referring to in the first sentence.  If it the WisDOT Bike Design
Handbook, or the 1999 AASHTO Guide For Bike Facilities?
In any case, they give the same answer. The concerned bikie should be
directed to those manuals as a source to better understand how agencies
decide when/where/how we plan our bike facilities. 
Also we should delete the sentence "I'm not sure what the marked bike
width was prior to construction."

Other things to consider:
- Did the pavement get striped per plan? Or did the bike lane become
narrower and the right turn lane or the through lane become wider?  
- This project should have been reviewed with the City of Madison (maybe
was) to see if it meets their levels of accommodating bikes. Arthur Ross
the city contact for bike issues. We may not be able to address all the
facility needs they want, but we should start our design with a
of their needs. 

Mary Pamperin-Volk
WisDOT Southwest Region Multi-Modal Coordinator 

WisDOT SW Region Madison Office
2101 Wright St 
Madison WI 53704


Think of the Future and Do the Right Thing    - Dick Madrzak 1997

-----Original Message-----
From: Barta, Larry 
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:31 PM
To: Pamperin-Volk, Mary
Subject: FW: [Bikies] Losing ground

Hi, Mary - please discuss with me so we can agree on a reply to the

-----Original Message-----
From: Oeth, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:17 PM
To: Barta, Larry
Subject: RE: [Bikies] Losing ground

Larry, here are my thoughts:

I am not sure what the marked bike lane width was prior to construction.

The new bike lane widths are straight from the manual.  Prior to
construction, the pavement on Seminole south of the intersection had
markings for a bike lane and a driving lane in each direction.  While
condition clearly defined the bike lane, the driving lane was more
loosely defined being used for both straight and turning movements.  The
roadway width is actually wider, but there is more definition to
lanes with separate marked left, right, and straight through lanes in
addition to the marked bike lane.  Because of the added definition, I
suspect there could be a perception that everything "feels" narrower.

Prior to construction, bicyclists entering the intersection from the
encountered difficulties because it is an uphill slope, and cars
would come up from their behind and cross over the bike lane to turn
onto the frontage road.  There was a very small right turn lane at
the intersection, and right turners would regularly back up due to the
insufficient storage and encroach on the bike lane.  The new roadway
width substantially lengthened the right turn lane, and also placed the
bicycle lane between the right turn lane and the through lane (as per
manual).  The northbound approach has a 10-ft left turn lane, an 11-ft
lane, a 5-ft bike lane, and a 10-ft to flange (12-ft to face) right turn
lane.  All of these are commonly accepted lane widths in urban settings.

The Bike Federation of Wisconsin (BFW) was coordinated with during
development of project and had an opportunity to comment on proposed
work.  They fully supported the proposed work, and felt the project
accommodated bicycle needs well (see attached memo).  David Vogt, Deputy
Executive Director of the BFW attended the first Public Information
on January 10, 2008 (his comments are included in the attached


-----Original Message-----
From: Barta, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:46 AM
To: Oeth, Jim
Subject: FW: [Bikies] Losing ground

Do you have any comments to suggest - send me your thoughts, please and
I and Mary Pamperin Volk will figure out a response. Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:26 PM
To: Dryer, David; Barta, Larry
Subject: FW: [Bikies] Losing ground

 What you think?  Response please.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:31 PM
To: bikies@danenet.org
Subject: [Bikies] Losing ground

Recent 'improvements' at the intersection of Seminole Hwy and the
frontage road are now completed - lots of traffic signals, and
new turn lanes. 

What do motorists get: more convenience

What do cyclists get: screwed.

The re-striped bike lanes are at least 6 inches *narrower* on Seminole
of the intersection. Also,  the other traffics lanes are also
narrower. Just in the first week, I've a few close calls with motorists
seem unable to stay inside the lines. I guess they're not teaching that
Kindergarten any more.

* which municipality authorized this project? I'm guessing city of
* how did they get away with making the intersection more hazardous to

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