Matt and Robbie (and other interested parties),
Robbie, I think yours must have come in at the same time as Matt's since his
thread wasn't on your slightly later time-stamped email.
I really appreciate both of your responses and setting out these points. Matt,
I particularly take what you're saying to heart. Excellent points! I still
don't think I can stomach listening to WIBA, but being keenly aware of those
with opposing viewpoints is important. I also think of it as "tuning into the
opponent's favorite radio station--WII-FM (what's in it for me)" if you want to
get their attention.
Again, thank you both. Even if I don't always understand--or even agree,
although in this case I do--I really appreciate the viewpoints that everyone on
this group brings up.
Liz
________________________________
From: Matt Logan <[email protected]>
To: 'Liz Zelandais' <[email protected]>; 'Bikies' <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Bikies] WIBA carps on Ride The Drive:
Liz,
I wouldn’t characterize my intention as “taking you to task”, it was more of
raising everyone’s awareness that there is value in understanding where the
resistance is coming from to improving our bicycling infrastructure. Most
people I know choose not to listen to WIBA because of its caustic nature, but I
believe you can learn a lot about how to speak in public by listening to how
the WIBA folks (mis)interpret the messages that bicycle advocates have put out
there. I am sorry I didn’t follow up sooner.
The big things I have learned:
· There’s no point in bringing up the fact that bicycles pollute less
or contribute less to global warming. The liberal officials are already on
your side, and the conservatives hear it as you suggesting you are a superior
human being for polluting less and tune you out.
· Conservatives believe that what us bikies really want is to force
them out of their cars and into a lifestyle they don’t want. Look up “Agenda
21” on google sometime to see how they describe it.
· Conservatives (or most people for that matter) are not going to be
reasonable until you frame your discussion in terms of things that they already
value.
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Liz Zelandais
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:39 PM
To: 'Bikies'
Subject: [Bikies] WIBA carps on Ride The Drive:
Hi,
I seek to understand. When I made a comment about henceforth choosing with
purpose not to listen to WIBA, Matt Logan sent me an email (thread below)
through this group seemingly taking me to task and advising me about the "great
mistake" of ignoring the voices expressing the Madison majority opinion about
cyclists. The point he seemed to make was that since Robbie Webber had gotten
ugly letters & email as an alder, she had paid her dues so should get a pass.
But apparently I should listen. And he knows Mitch Henck personally. Huh?
I'm not as seasoned as many of you, and I don't get it. What the heck am I
supposed to do? Listen to Mitch Henck to educate myself? And if you're going to
show a newbie the error of his/her ways, wouldn't you bother to inform,
educate, instruct--rather than ignore when asked for clarification?
I really would appreciate if someone could explain this.
Thank you.
Liz Zélandais
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Matt (and other Bikies),
I agree with your stance, including that WIBA dialogue probably does reflect
the majority Madison view. I ask this sincerely, not with snark: will my
listening to WIBA diatribes that leave me feeling slightly sick be of benefit
somehow? My current thoughts are that choosing not to listen to Mitch Henck, et
al does not mean I'm closing my eyes and mind to the realities. But I'm open to
new understanding of why that would be a good thing for me to do if that is
what you're suggesting. I would love to call in just to ask why they don't dish
on the driver who blew a red light on Monroe this morning and almost mowed me
down, but 1) I doubt I would get on and 2) even if I did, it doesn't seem
productive.
I am gradually doing more commuting by bike; and I'm one of those cyclists who
used to cross against the light if the way was clear. I don't do that anymore.
I try to be religiously observant of traffic laws and signs, even more for the
reflection it brings on the cycling community than for safety. (Although being
uber survival-centric, I focus on safety as well.) I try to be courteous to
autos--as well as to other cyclists & pedestrians. This is to say that I am
aware of the often-tarnished reputation cyclists have in the eyes of the
populace, and besides wanting to be a decent human being, I also go out of my
way to be a good representative of our ilk.
In light of your opening statement, Matt, what would you propose I do? I am
here to learn.
Thanks for your thoughtful remarks and input. I appreciate the dialogue.
Liz
________________________________
From:Matt Logan <[email protected]>
To: 'Liz Zelandais' <[email protected]>; 'Bikies' <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Bikies] WIBA carps on Ride The Drive:
Liz,
It is a great mistake to ignore the voices of what I believe to be the majority
of people in the Madison Area.
Ignorance about bicycling issues is to be expected in our car-dominated
culture. Generalizations cannot be avoided when you are talking about human
beings. And hate? Actor-Observer bias is a well-documented tendency we all
have to attribute perceived differences in behavior as the fault of the
person’s inner nature, and ignore environmental factors, which often are the
true source of our differences. Many of the attitudes opinions you heard on
WIBA are widely held. Let me give you an example:
After I attended the “Mayor’s Vision on Bicycling” event a couple weeks ago, I
headed to band practice at my Church – Lake Edge UCC. Lake Edge prides itself
on being inclusive, calling itself “open and affirming” of different viewpoints
and lifestyles. As I was helping set up, I mentioned to one of the band
members that I had just attended a city meeting on bicycling. The band
member’s first reaction was to ask when bicyclists were going to obey all
traffic controls. The band member then recited a number of anecdotes similar
to what I have heard on WIBA. In addition to that, I have heard people complain
about the wasted money on the Aberg overpass (which kicks ass by the way), and
there has been some skepticism about the need for bike boxes. I have also
been monitoring comments in the media on bike stories for a number of years,
and general ignorant opposition to improving the bicycling experience is
widespread.
Maybe you already are connected to these voices somehow. I know Robbie used
to get a steady stream of anti-bicycle e-mail when she was an alder, so I can
understand that listening to WIBA would be redundant for some people.
For what its worth: Mitch Henck has invited me to be on his show, and I even
spent ½ hour one day talking about some of the bad information out there
regarding the now-defunct RTA and the commuter rail proposal. I have contacted
him numerous times about the content of his bicycling shows. His view seems to
be that we should only build infrastructure for the majority, and that whining
about bicyclists is “fun”.
From:Liz Zelandais [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 6:35 PM
To: Matt Logan; Bikies
Subject: Re: [Bikies] WIBA carps on Ride The Drive:
Those couple of "thoughtful callers" gave a tiny respite from the ignorance,
generalizations, and hate. I hadn't really listened to WIBA before (although I
once interviewed Henck for an Isthmus article), but now I join Robbie in not
listening to it on purpose.
Liz
________________________________
From:Matt Logan <[email protected]>
To: Bikies <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: [Bikies] WIBA carps on Ride The Drive:
Mitch Henck trotted out the usual anti-bike talking points this morning – but a
couple thoughtful callers managed to get in:
http://bit.ly/pweA0t
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