I completely agree that there is no safety reason for a mature bike rider to
come to a complete stop at a stop sign, as we have the advantage of being fully
aware of our surroundings (vs. a vehicle). Therefore, the only reason to come
to a complete stop is for PR, and this is an important one. If there are ANY
CARS around at all, I always emphasize stopping, not going through red light,
etc. because we NEVER want a bike-hater to be able to use the argument that
bikes don't follow the rules. Funny how we have to play these childish games
because of so many closed-minded drivers.
kris
________________________________
From: Grant Foster <[email protected]>
To: "STRAWSER, Charles" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Bikies] "stop" legally defined
I actually think it's the wrong approach to advocate for equal treatment, as
in, treat me just like you treat a motor vehicle. We are different and we
should be treated differently. I believe we should be afforded equal access to
a safe and efficient infrastructure, but pretending I'm a car is an easy way
out. I can't drive down the belt line on my bike and I don't want to-it's
unsafe and it would severely impact the motor vehicle traffic. Let's advocate
for equal rights, not equal treatment.
In the same way, I shouldn't ever have to come to a complete stop at a stop
sign unless the situation truly calls for it. There is absolutely no value in
me stopping at a stop sign (as opposed to yielding) except that by not stopping
I might make a driver envious.
There's actually no value in motor vehicles stopping instead of yielding at the
vast majority of posted intersections. The only reason we have so many stop
signs is because motor vehicle drivers don't yield very well.
Grant
On May 17, 2012 1:02 PM, "STRAWSER, Charles" <[email protected]> wrote:
I think the tangent we are on is interesting, but deserves a new subject line.
>------------
>Arthur wrote: “Watch motorists approaching a stop sign. Watch their wheels.
>Do their wheels completely cease moving if they are not forced to stop by a
>flow of traffic…”
>-------------
>Long ago I heard a law enforcement officer say that even if a motorist’s
>wheels were stopped, it could be argued that “motion had not ceased” if the
>driver only stopped long enough for the car’s body to rock forward (over the
>stopped wheels), then backward (still over stopped wheels), then took their
>foot off the brake and allowed the car’s wheels to start rolling forward
>before the oscillation of the car’s body over the stopped wheels had ceased,
>i.e. COMPLETE cessation of motion (nothing in the statute Arthur cites mention
>that the motion that has to cease only includes “forward” motion).
>
>I personally think that is perhaps too rigid a view of what constitutes a
>legal stop for a motorist (or a track standing cyclist), but I’d be fine with
>an individual law enforcement officer taking that view as long as s/he
>consistently applied such an extremely narrow view of “stop” to both motorists
>and bicyclists.
>
>That is, after all, all we are asking for: equal consideration under the law
>that is due bicyclists by Wisconsin state statutes.
>
>Chuck Strawser
>Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner
>Commuter Solutions
>Transportation Services
>UW-Madison
>Room 124 WARF
>610 Walnut St
>Madison WI 53726
>608-263-2969
>www.wisc.edu/trans
>From:Ross, Arthur
>
>
>
>CHAPTER 340 VEHICLES — GENERAL PROVISIONS
>340.01 Words and phrases defined. In s. 23.33 and chs. 340 to 349 and 351, the
>following words and phrases have the designated meanings unless a different
>meaning is expressly provided or the context clearly indicates a different
>meaning:
>(62) “Stop” when required means complete cessation from movement.
>
>Reasonable people can disagree as to just what this means with respect to what
>behavior by a bicyclist constitutes a legal stop. Reasonable people can
>include a bicyclist, a police officer, a judge, and/or a jury :- )
>
>Watch motorists approaching a stop sign. Watch their wheels. Do their wheels
>completely cease moving if they are not forced to stop by a flow of traffic on
>the intersecting street? This not an argument for bicyclists not stopping,
>just an interesting study in behavior.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bikies mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
>
>
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