A left at a traffic circle- "Movement B," where we suspect the "B" is for "bowel"- isn't permitted here nor, as far as I can make out, in Washington state. Too few people act as if they know that, or that you are supposed to yield to traffic already in the circle, and that- besides sight distance issues- seems to be a big part of the problem.
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Patrick Lenon <[email protected]>wrote: > Jason, I certainly can't explain that. If the car on the left is at a > stop sign, you're crowded into it. > > Also, the alternate maneuver, going around the long way to turn left, > would be dangerous if there's oncoming traffic that thinks you're going to > continue straight on. That's why I don't like these. Two options, both > bad. > > The basic problem is nobody knows what the other guy's going to do. > That's inherently dangerous. > > ------------- > Patrick Lenon > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:36:27 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Traffic circle accidents worry Kitsilano residents > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > > > Patrick. > > Thank you for the documents. Can anyone explain to me why - if nothing is > posted at the circle - roadway users are permitted to turn left in front of > the circle? (Shown in the 2nd doc Patrick included) > > This is a common maneuver in my neighborhood (at Edgewood and Westlawn) > and seems to increase the potential for some of the most dangerous > interactions - head on crashes - that well designed intersections should > help prevent (see roundabouts). > > Interested to hear back > > Jason > > On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Patrick Lenon wrote: > > I'm glad you differentiated between roundabouts and traffic circles. The > main difference to me is I am all in favor of roundabouts, and absolutely > hate traffic circles. > > I have to maneuver around several circles regularly. On straight streets > I consider them a hazard at any speed. It's basically like swerving to > dodge an imaginary squirrel. Night visibility is a big problem. At > two-way stop intersections they are confusing, particularly when turning > left. Nobody seems to know whether they should cut through the direct way > or go around. Either way maneuvering space is lost, forcing vehicles into > each other. > > Here's the city's official FAQ on why these things exist: > http://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficengineering/ntmpfaq.cfm > > Buried in there is a very nice set of guidelines on how to maneuver > traffic circles (which unfortunately hardly anyone seems to have read): > http://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficengineering/documents/legalleftturn07212004.pdf > > END rant. > > ------------- > Patrick Lenon > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 11:40:10 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > CC: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Traffic circle accidents worry Kitsilano residents > > Interesting. The circles in the video seem to be a cross between two > different types of infrastructure: 1. a traffic circle - that is a traffic > calming device, and 2. a roundabout, which is usually a replacement for a > traffic signal. I think it would work if the sight lines were better - i.e. > no tall vegetation - and people entered the intersection at a very slow > speed - maybe 10 mph. Think of the whole thing like a giant uncontrolled > intersection - never assume that you have the right of way, and know that > you will likely have to yield someone else at least half the time, maybe > more. > > The traffic circle in my neighborhood - the very first traffic calming > project in Madison - has a 2-way stop on one street and through street on > the other. It's not meant to dictate right of way, just to get people to go > slower. We haven't had any problems in the over 15 years it's been there, > and it's on Kendall, a major bike route. > > Robbie Webber > Transportation Policy Analyst > State Smart Transportation Initiative > www.ssti.us > 608-263-9984 (o) > 608-225-0002 (c) > [email protected] > > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:46 AM, S. Morris Rose <[email protected]>wrote: > > This is an interesting development- City of Vancouver (in British > Columbia... in Canada?... America's Hat?) are actually removing traffic > circles after crash data has shown that they have a negative impact on > cyclist safety. I think the expectation when these things were added- there > are hundreds of them here- was that the impact would be positive. But it > turns out that reduced sight distances and confusion about semantics make > the effect negative. > > > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/05/20/bc-traffic-circle-concerns.html > > -- > Scott M. Rose > West Point Grey, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > -- Scott M. Rose West Point Grey, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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