I do aggree with you there is a split.
The one dev shop may be out right now but I don't know who would get
successfully to sighted gamers or coperations.
We would need a group.
I don't know how to really program anything, but know technical computer things.
I test software, I don't know how to market but would be interested in helping
a group.
The first thing is that all prices have to go up to 100-200 dollars per game.
And that also means our standards have to be really high.
If you look at games like stuff from aph, which I concider crap because lack of
action and so on.
Well you are right that the one dev shop is done.
But what you are asking needs more than just us on the list.
As it is, if you don't mind saying there are those who are loyal to some devs
and others who are not etc.
Eg I am loyal to gma, usa, pcs.
Also draconis.
Also agrip, audiogames.
Sound support.
and average on pine.
But the rest I am not loyal, and in fact have had a falling out with some.
Some games are really good and some are just shoddy.
We have almost no rating system and no standards officually.
So we need that first.
Only then can we go forward, I think we are already doing this, so lets go on
to the next thing.
We have all the profesional sighted people.
Our games are way behind the sighted.
Sighted gamers wouldn't be interested in our games, because they are out of
date.
So we will not win that way.
We need to have it done backwards.
Thats bringing the games for the sighted to us, and I suppose try to put our
games to the sighted.
And for the record I would be interested in being a major part of that.
I am in new zealand, but I can do emails, and other tech support and things.
All you say is valid.
I don't want to dissapoint you, something was tried with audyssey with the
audyssey pluss thing, it never eventuated.
But yeah, I think its time to move on.
At 11:06 a.m. 21/02/2006, you wrote:
>Ok, here are the ground rules of this discussion. I do not want to inspire
>anyone to flame anyone, or bring up old disputes. My mail reading this
>morning was deeply discouraging in this group. Bravo to our mods for their
>patience.
>
>I do want to pose a question and write a few thoughts about it that have
>been occasioned by conversations over the years I've been a member of this
>list.
>
>There seems to be a split among list members and blind gamers in general
>about what standards to hold game developers to in terms both of
>professionalism and quality of product. The extreme ends of the spectrum
>are those who believe that anyone who develops accessible games ought to be
>praised for the act of doing so and not held to very high standards, and
>those who believe that they are professionals who should be held to the
>same standards that a sighted gamer holds a mainstream developer to. Since
>I'm posing the question, I'll ramble on a bit; it's only fair.
>
>I think there are some deep social implications to how a blind person feels
>about the developers of blind games. (They are probably extensible to the
>realm of developers of access technologies in general, but for the sake of
>being on topic, I'll stick to games.) Let's face it, whether you are a
>cheer leader or a whiner (or that vast collection of people in between,)
>being blind is a pain in the butt sometimes, and there is a natural
>tendency to be grateful to anyone who makes that life easier, more fun or
>in any way, devotes time and effort to improving our quality of life.
>
>On the one hand, this is right and proper. Developing access technology
>isn't ever going to make anyone wealthy, and developing accessible games is
>even less likely to lead to early retirement. I've worked as a programmer,
>and for those who haven't, even if you enjoy problem-solving as I do, the
>niggling details are a major pain. For every hour of creative fun, there
>are hours and hours of detail work that would try the patience of a
>saint. So, those who do this work must have a reason beyond the desire for
>filthy lucre to do it, and we should acknowledge that desire for what it is.
>
>On the other hand, there is a danger in dwelling too much on gratitude as a
>response to the sometimes lackluster results of these laudable goals. How
>many of us have run into the attitude that we only exist on the charity
>and/or sufferance of kind souls who look after us. Now, I don't know about
>the rest of you, but I work my tail off to support a family of five, with
>my wife in school and a ten-month-old baby, and don't need anyone's pity,
>charity or anything else, though a helping hand offered in the spirit of
>empowerment is surely appreciated.
>
>I wonder sometimes if we don't play into the charity trap by our unthinking
>gratitude for any efforts tossed our way, no matter how ill-thought-out
>they may be. (I'm pausing to remind people I'm not thinking of anyone in
>particular here only because I know this lists' unfortunate propensity to
>read things in where they aren't intended.) I think there is something to
>be gained in requiring those who would engage in developing access
>technology, and in particular accessible games to do so in that spirit of
>empowerment, and with a degree of professionalism that we perhaps have not
>done before. This can be done with great respect, and requires very
>proactive feedback between developers and their consumers. It requires
>consumers to expect more from their developers then another rehash of a
>1970's video game. It requires developers to invest time in marketing
>their products to the large number of blind people who don't participate on
>this or the the GMA list.
>
>As a side note, the number of blind people is increasing quite a bit in
>this country, and probably world wide as medical advances allow more people
>to live long enough for their eyes to go all wonky on them. And many of
>these people aren't the people mired in the blindness system that have
>formed the base for the gaming industry thus far, but professionals who
>have lost their sight later in life, have financial security, but are
>unaware of the opportunity to continue pastimes they may have had during
>the visually-enabled part of their lives. Where is the marketing effort to
>these consumers who could fund the development of bigger, better games?
>
>I think the era of the one-developer shop has had its day. Let me pause to
>acknowledge the importance of what these pioneers have achieved. They
>proved that games, even fairly sophisticated games, such as those produced
>by GMA and others were possible. They made it clear that there is a
>constituency for their products.
>
>But it's time to acknowledge the reality that the one-developer shop can't
>possibly produce a product in a timely fashion that can rival in complexity
>the hundreds of titles available to the sighted gamer. It's not that the
>technology doesn't exist, or that research into the methods of translating
>complex visual feedback into a form we can use doesn't exist. It's just a
>cold hard fact that you can't make a living writing a game of that
>complexity for a market that numbers in the hundreds of buyers. (To the
>developers, is that an accurate estimate?) The prospect of taking on such
>a huge project is understandably daunting for any one individual, witness
>the numerous brave announcements of startups we've seen that have been
>followed up by an announcement that something is being scaled back or
>scrapped due to lack of resources. (And I mean no disrespect to anyone by
>pointing that out; of course it's difficult, and if you have people to
>support and can only do this in your spare time, then my God, you have my
>respect for even attempting it.)
>
>My point, and yes, I'm getting to it, is that the business model just
>doesn't work. I will buy anything GMA produces because I have brand
>loyalty to them, and my personal dealings with David Greenwood have always
>been courteous, professional and honorable. But I'm not going to fool
>myself into believing that GMA is ever going to produce a title comparable
>in complexity to the games I could buy from Game Stop were I a sighted
>player. He's done remarkably well with the limited tools and time at his
>disposal, as have other developers. (I single GMA out because it's the
>company I've had the most dealings with.)
>
>It's time to take the next step. Some visionary, pardon the pun, is going
>to have to figure out how to do business in an entirely new way, or at
>least adapt the successful model of the EA Games, Lucas Arts type of
>company. Someone is going to have to figure out how to market our games to
>that much broader segment of the blind population who has never heard of
>Lone Wolf or Monkey Business. Someone is going to actually have to recruit
>a professional staff, find capital, find a marketing channel and produce a
>professional-quality (and I mean professional by the larger industry
>standard) game, to show that it can be done, that it can be sold and at a
>price that is competitive with mainstream game titles.
>
>My challenge to this community is to brainstorm on how that might be done,
>to inspire those who have the talent and the will to make such a thing
>happen. It begins with us who care. It begins by abandoning negativity,
>by learning from past phenomena but not being mired in them. It begins by
>someone determining that the thing shall be done.
>
>So, I would be interested in hearing what others, developers and consumers
>alike have to say about this admittedly long and potentially controversial
>posting. (Ron, if you think this is suitable, you can publish it in the
>next Audyssey.)
>
> Chris Bartlett
>
>
>
>
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